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 Confused about true bowel tolerance 
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Post Confused about true bowel tolerance
Good Afternoon,

I have been spreading my dosages 5x's per day. My overall daily BT tolerance was 22g. I take 5g in the morning, 5g in the evening and 4g three separate times in between 2-3 hours apart. When I take 5g in the morning, 5g again mid-morning, and 5g again @ lunch, I hit my BT at 15g. Not sure if my true bowel tolerance is 22g or 15g.

Thanks,
Carnyard.


Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:04 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
I should add that this is the Vitamin C I am taking:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/b ... id=VS-1247


Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:25 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
It's academic IMHO.

I like the fact that you can get to 22 grams per day without a blowout.

In any case, the important thing is that you have found your Cathcart limit. This is the key to finding an efficacious dose for YOU. How do you feel? If you need more to feel better then, of course, adding some of the more expensive liposomal form is called for, if you can afford it.

Good luck. Please keep us informed. It's the sum of case reports like yours that helps make this site the gold mine that it is. :D


Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:12 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Your true bowel tolerance is defined by a non-stop steady stream of ascorbate anything less is confounded by the very short half-life and decreasing absorption rates associated with increasing single dosages.


Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:30 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Lemonaid wrote:
Your true bowel tolerance is defined by a non-stop steady stream of ascorbate anything less is confounded by the very short half-life and decreasing absorption rates associated with increasing single dosages.


Once you reach bowel tolerance with this method how do you proceed from there. For example, I wake up and mix 6g in .5L of water. I finish the water in 30 minutes. I repeat the process again and keep repeating until I reach bowel tolerance. Let's say I reach it at 10g in less than an hour. Do I stop taking any Vitamin C for the rest of the day? Do I repeat the process every day?

I apologize if this has already been addressed in earlier posts. I am relatively new to the forum.

Thanks for your help.
Carnyard


Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:07 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Smaller but more frequent doses. Try 1 gram every hour or 2 grams every other hour or 2 grams per hour. You can't really get a steady flow taking large doses spread 4-6 hours apart.

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Linus Pauling, Matthias Rath, Thomas E. Levy, Fred Klenner, Robert Cathcart, Owen Fonorrow, Sydney J. Bush-- These are my doctors and they saved my life and I have never met one of them.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:39 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Schigara wrote:
Smaller but more frequent doses. Try 1 gram every hour or 2 grams every other hour or 2 grams per hour. You can't really get a steady flow taking large doses spread 4-6 hours apart.


How do you determine your maintenance dose and how do you spread your maintenance dose out during the day?


Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:03 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Personally, I want the steadiest flow of c I can get so I spread my doses out roughly every hour to 1.5 hours apart while awake. I take 10 doses per day of 1.5 grams(3 500mg tablets) which totals 15grams in a day. This amount gives me a good bit of gas. Last week I tried upping the doses to 2 grams at a time to see if I could handle 20 grams a day and after the 8th dose, I had a loose bowel movement.

It's all just trial and error but the main thing is to not try to take giant doses at one time.

Example: One time I took 5 grams at once and got a very loose BM. This does not mean my daily bowel tolerance is 5grams. This just means my per dose limit is less than 5grams. My daily limit is between 16-18 grams. There is a difference between dose limit and daily limit.



carnyard wrote:
Schigara wrote:
Smaller but more frequent doses. Try 1 gram every hour or 2 grams every other hour or 2 grams per hour. You can't really get a steady flow taking large doses spread 4-6 hours apart.


How do you determine your maintenance dose and how do you spread your maintenance dose out during the day?

_________________
Linus Pauling, Matthias Rath, Thomas E. Levy, Fred Klenner, Robert Cathcart, Owen Fonorrow, Sydney J. Bush-- These are my doctors and they saved my life and I have never met one of them.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:28 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Schigara wrote:
Personally, I want the steadiest flow of c I can get so I spread my doses out roughly every hour to 1.5 hours apart while awake. I take 10 doses per day of 1.5 grams(3 500mg tablets) which totals 15grams in a day. This amount gives me a good bit of gas. Last week I tried upping the doses to 2 grams at a time to see if I could handle 20 grams a day and after the 8th dose, I had a loose bowel movement.

It's all just trial and error but the main thing is to not try to take giant doses at one time.

Example: One time I took 5 grams at once and got a very loose BM. This does not mean my daily bowel tolerance is 5grams. This just means my per dose limit is less than 5grams. My daily limit is between 16-18 grams. There is a difference between dose limit and daily limit.


Thank you. That was very helpful. One more question if you don't mind. Do you find taking Vitamin C in capsule form vs. powder form gives you a little more control using the dosage strategy that you just outlined? I am currently experimenting with both powder and capsules to see which works better for me.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:18 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
It is just more convenient as I can load up my pill organizer and take it with me to play golf or whatever and not have to deal with measuring powder and putting it in a liquid.

carnyard wrote:
Schigara wrote:

Thank you. That was very helpful. One more question if you don't mind. Do you find taking Vitamin C in capsule form vs. powder form gives you a little more control using the dosage strategy that you just outlined? I am currently experimenting with both powder and capsules to see which works better for me.

_________________
Linus Pauling, Matthias Rath, Thomas E. Levy, Fred Klenner, Robert Cathcart, Owen Fonorrow, Sydney J. Bush-- These are my doctors and they saved my life and I have never met one of them.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:40 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Schigara wrote:
It is just more convenient as I can load up my pill organizer and take it with me to play golf or whatever and not have to deal with measuring powder and putting it in a liquid.


Good point. Thanks again for all of you help. I really appreciate it.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:58 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Keep in mind that doing lots of pills is bad thing because of fillers.
I wouldn't recommend to anybody mega-dosing on pills.
Pills are good if taken few per day. Not 30-60... Otherwise you are ingesting far too much fillers.
AFAIK, one of them, magnesium stearate which is hypothesized to be toxic, altho definite answer doesn't exist and it depend on manufacturer (which honesty you can't know), can constitute up to 5% of the pill. If you take 50 x 500mg ~ pills (25g C) you are taking each day around 1.2g of if per day, not counting other fillers.


Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
http://www.raysahelian.com/magnesiumstearate.html


Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:29 pm
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
As per the above literature it would be fair to say that there is no solid evidence to suggest magnesium stearate is harmful. Furthermore we must remember that the amount found in C capsules is relatively small. If the individual has a pre-existing kidney condition then fillers should rightly be avoided due to the extra work they create for the kidney. However if the person does not have a kidney condition then they should not worry about the fillers present in C capsules. A healthy kidney is perfectly capable of filtering them without a worry.

Also, I think it is worth noting that the intake of fillers via C capsules will not have a cumulative effect if the dosages are spread out in the manor the OP described. As long as kidney function is adequate at least. The contents of the capsule will have been long filtered before the next dose.

Of course, taking AA/SA powder would be the most optimum as it has no fillers and negates the whole fillers debate. To answer the question of which is superior it would be unbuffered AA powder as it is free of fillers and is absorbed better than it's buffered version. (Since AA can be partially absorbed straight through the lining of the gut.). For me, it really comes down to convienience. It is much easier to take 2/3 C-1000 caps with some water than to prepare an AA mix. If i'm at work, or out somewhere, it is often the case that carrying a tub of AA powder would just be impractical. Having a 4/5 caps in my pocket is far more sensible for me.

Better yet, take Liposomal C. Personally i find the price extortionate and cannot afford it on a regular basis. If one wanted the best form of C however, this would be the answer.

Looking at your maintenance dose/dosages, it would suggest that either dose would be more than adequate for most people. Obviously there is biochemical individuality to take into consideration as everyones requirements will be different, however, as questioned earlier in the topic, ask yourself how you feel. 20 grams of ascorbate per day is comparable to a therapeutic dose and is in the range one might take to reverse atherosclerosis. I wouldn't be too worried at the difference between 15 and 20 grams. I would rather settle for a couple of grams below by BT in order to not be on the verge of diarrhoea all day.

Lastly, i would reiterate, as others have said, that dose frequency is more important than establishing your 'true' BT. Absorption rates of ascorbate show diminishing returns past a point, i.e. 5 grams is not 2x better than 4 grams, although greater absorption does occur at a lesser rate the more the dosage increases. In this respect it would be better to take 2 grams every 2 hours than take 10 grams in the morning and 10 grams in the evening.


Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:34 am
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Post Re: Confused about true bowel tolerance
Quote:
http://www.raysahelian.com/magnesiumstearate.html

I am not impressed, really. First, it talks about stearic acid which is not the same thing. It is obvious also that it uses wikipedia as source of the info as there are sentences that are unchanged. Then it lists research about stearic acid. This is natural acid abundant in human body and life in general. I don't know if magnesium stearate occurs naturally. For comaprison, trans fatty acids do not (or to be more precise, they occur but in minuscule amounts) and the difference between them and cis variants that do occur can be geometrical only - 1 atom of Hydrogen on trans position (versus cis position that ocurs in nature). So, like I said, I don't know, I am not a chemist, still connecting dots and infos about it. It doesn't seem to be harmful so far, it might be alergen to some people.

Quote:
As per the above literature it would be fair to say that there is no solid evidence to suggest magnesium stearate is harmful.

Like I said, there is no enough evidence, however many people report problems (read the comments too):
While there is no hard evidence that I am aware of, I don't like the fact that I ingest something that is basically NOT tested in megadoses of C. Mg stearate doesn't have any function apart from lining up production line, it also reduces absorption, and it might be created with trans fats and we all know that trans fats are evil. Also, its far easier to use powder IMO.

Apart from mentioned filler, there is usually a silicon dioxide. This one is also used in breast implants and if it leaks it can seriously danger the woman health. Now, I know that dose is everything, some toxins in small doses are actually beneficial to health as they "start up the repair robot" in the body, but I want to use C only, and nothing else. Animals producing C in the liver don't make silicon dioxide, magnesium stearate, E numbers and stuff like that.

Silicone Chemistry wrote:
Although human exposure to crystalline silica is extensive and generally to no ill effect, tissue (especially lung) exposure to particulate silica or silica dust has well defined toxic, inflammatory outcomes (American Thoracic Society, 1997).


So, really, I don't want to guess. I want C, nothing else, thank you.


I achieve vitamin C flush using this method: I add 30-40g of C in the 1l of water with 10-15g of sodium bicarbonate and 2 lemons (too boost absorption with flavonoids). I drink it during 3 hours every few minutes. Since flush is not taking effect immediately you might inject more C then needed but next time you will adjust the dosage. I take 1g of magnesium before starting up as C over 20g will reduce magnesium levels.


Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:03 pm
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