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 Got new VAP labs back-not good 
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Post Got new VAP labs back-not good
Was at 185 total cholesterol recently w/ traditional test. Had VAP done last week(been on Pauling therapy for 2 months). Results:

ldl 162 High
Cholesterol total 231 High
Non hdl Chol(ldl+vldl) 182 High
Apob100-calc 115 High
ldl-R (Real)-c 136 High
Lp(a) Chol 13.0 High

hdl-2(Most protective) 10 low
vldl-3(small remnant) 12 High

Have already decided to do a course of IV chelation. In regards to PT does anyone have any suggestion? Does PT cause this kind of initial response?

Have taken vit. and fish oil for years, exercise regularly, minimal sugar, started taking niacin about 4mo ago when had 260 total cholest. traditional test.

Would apreciate some feedback.


Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:42 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Also bowel tolerance about 10g. Doing 6g lysine, 2g proline, 4g sodium bicarb. Mix in water bottle and drink throughout day. Ordered liposomal vc and will start taking a packet at bedtime on top of other c.


Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:08 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Quote:
4g sodium bicarb. Mix in water bottle and drink throughout day


Good idea to add Lypo-C. One before bed is a good plan.

You say 10 g is your C tolerance, but you are only taking 4 g SA daily? (According to lab experiments by Sherry Lewin, (Vitamin C: Its Biology and Medical Potential) vitamin C degrades 50% in 4 hours in water. So after 4 hours what ever is left of that 4 g has degraded 50% (in water.)

The problem seems to me that you aren't getting the amount of vitamin C you require
for optimal metabolism. You should aim closer to the 10 g, perhaps more as ascorbic acid.

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Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:25 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Are you saying to take in divided doses? That would be fine. Do you mean I shouldn't mix w/ sodium bicarb? If that is what you are saying I will try that. Thanks for the quick reply.
ofonorow wrote:
Quote:
4g sodium bicarb. Mix in water bottle and drink throughout day


Good idea to add Lypo-C. One before bed is a good plan.

You say 10 g is your C tolerance, but you are only taking 4 g SA daily? (According to lab experiments by Sherry Lewin, (Vitamin C: Its Biology and Medical Potential) vitamin C degrades 50% in 4 hours in water. So after 4 hours what ever is left of that 4 g has degraded 50% (in water.)

The problem seems to me that you aren't getting the amount of vitamin C you require
for optimal metabolism. You should aim closer to the 10 g, perhaps more as ascorbic acid.


Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:14 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Cobraman wrote:
Was at 185 total cholesterol recently w/ traditional test. Had VAP done last week(been on Pauling therapy for 2 months). Results:
Cholesterol total 231 High
Does PT cause this kind of initial response?


Cholesterol going from 185 to 231 could be caused by diet. If you want to reduce cholesterol, then try a plant-only oil-free diet. Worked for me.

Check: Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease: The Revolutionary, Scientifically Proven, Nutrition-Based Cure Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr., M.D.

You can buy this book at Amazon for around $10. Check out the customer reviews.
http://www.amazon.com/Prevent-Reverse-H ... 460&sr=8-1


Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
123xyz wrote:
Cholesterol going from 185 to 231 could be caused by diet.
Is there any scientific evidence that a cholesterol level below 300 is a bad thing? If so, could you pass along a few references? Thanks in advance.


Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:33 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Why such a difference between the standard test and the VAP test. I had the same issues and could never figure out which one to believe.......not that it mattered, but there should be a level of accuracy that people can rely on.


Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:14 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Quote:
Are you saying to take in divided doses? That would be fine. Do you mean I shouldn't mix w/ sodium bicarb? If that is what you are saying I will try that. Thanks for the quick reply.

First of all, I wanted to make sure that you are only taking 4000 mg daily. That seems to me crucial. But yes, I would divide the dosage (30 minute half life) and there is an issue of the vitamin C breaking down in the water. Taking sodium bicarbonate is probably okay, but all our very positive results (Cardio-C and Tower Pauling-therapy products) are formulated with ascorbic acid. As Dr. Cathcart explained, he considered AA to be "twice as powerful" as any mineral ascorbate, including sodium ascorbate. I think that at least "some" of the oral vitamin C should be ascorbic acid, and when you mix, this probably happens, as only some converts to sodium ascorbate.


As far as the accuracy of the VAP tests. After an experience looking at Scott Bushy's VAP, I have become less enamored with the VAP test. For example, Atherotech seems to have succumbed to "market" pressure, and no longer separate Lp(a) in the various sub groups! I don't know what else may have happened. I suspect that if you read between the lines, their test measures cholesterol differently. Perhaps they are reporting in terms of a standard cholesterol, like they do with Lp(a). I don't see why they might do this, but their numbers are often differnt. Perhaps they measure the number of particles, and report in terms of the weight of that many standard particles. I guess it is time to go to their web site or call them.

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Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:03 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Could taking the vitamin c have given me a temporary spike in the LDL components?
ofonorow wrote:
Quote:
Are you saying to take in divided doses? That would be fine. Do you mean I shouldn't mix w/ sodium bicarb? If that is what you are saying I will try that. Thanks for the quick reply.

First of all, I wanted to make sure that you are only taking 4000 mg daily. That seems to me crucial. But yes, I would divide the dosage (30 minute half life) and there is an issue of the vitamin C breaking down in the water. Taking sodium bicarbonate is probably okay, but all our very positive results (Cardio-C and Tower Pauling-therapy products) are formulated with ascorbic acid. As Dr. Cathcart explained, he considered AA to be "twice as powerful" as any mineral ascorbate, including sodium ascorbate. I think that at least "some" of the oral vitamin C should be ascorbic acid, and when you mix, this probably happens, as only some converts to sodium ascorbate.


As far as the accuracy of the VAP tests. After an experience looking at Scott Bushy's VAP, I have become less enamored with the VAP test. For example, Atherotech seems to have succumbed to "market" pressure, and no longer separate Lp(a) in the various sub groups! I don't know what else may have happened. I suspect that if you read between the lines, their test measures cholesterol differently. Perhaps they are reporting in terms of a standard cholesterol, like they do with Lp(a). I don't see why they might do this, but their numbers are often differnt. Perhaps they measure the number of particles, and report in terms of the weight of that many standard particles. I guess it is time to go to their web site or call them.


Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:56 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
The CLIA (Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendment) of 1988 provide standards for testing that labs are suppose to adhere to. However there is a catch. Tests that are NOT considered a test for a life threatening conditions can be waived from conforming to the standards and revert to published or (Catch word) ACCEPTABLE laboratory practices.
Since cholesterol testing is not considered a life threatening condition it can receive a standard waiver. Which means the labs are free to report their findings in ways as described in their individual Operating Manuals which are submitted to the states they operate in for their license and certification.
Since it is CLIA Waived test, it’s kind of they do what they want, type test and accuracy is generally not questioned. I will say most are pretty accurate however how it’s reported may not be all that good.
Lately there has been a push by some Doctor’s to drop the standard waiver because of that terrible cholesterol if not diagnosed right can really cut in to their profits, I mean could cause harm to the people being tested.
One must wonder who is backing this protest. Could it be
“BIG PHARMA???”
Anyway back to the report one can expect. Prior to this you should prepare a list of what you want the test to report on and take it with you. Before being tested, you should ask to see a sample of what the test will show. They will counter that the results will be sent to your doctor and shouldn’t concern you. (your dumb)! At this point you should ask for a supervisor and present them with your list of tests you want your doctor to receive as a minimum.
ASK! If they can provide you or your doctor with what your looking for. If they can’t your at the wrong Lab! Ask for a copy of their patient privacy policy and leave. Contact your doc and discuss the tests your looking for and let him guide you on this matter.
I wrote this summary from memory and may not be accurate for the state or country in which you live. In the states it pretty much applies to all.
I found one that applies to the state of Washington for reference. It’s posted below. Remember these labs aren’t afraid to take your money! Make sure you get what you want and pay for. Also know what you want!
http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/fsl/Document ... MTSapp.pdf

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Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:46 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Thanks johnwen - re:
Quote:
Could taking the vitamin c have given me a temporary spike in the LDL components?


Anecdotally, yes. We tried to run a "study" of folks who were just starting Tower products. They were to provide us with their latest cholesterol test, and then we wanted to monitor their Lp(a) after taking the Tower products. (This is where we learned a lot about the variations in testing between labs, and that Lp(a) can be "computed" and not "measured", similar to what johnwen is saying above.) Because before and after test results from different labs were comparing apples/oranges, we were never able to publish. However, we did notice that depending on when the next cholesterol test was taken, there could be an increase, before the substantial decrease. This is fading into my memory's sunset, and we were focused on Lp(a).

Several years ago, home cholesterol tests were popular, and in at least one case, a person monitored their cholesterol on a daily basis. What we learned is that food can have a dramatic effect on the cholesterol reading - and that these readings vary wildly from day to day. For example, a sweet red wine would spike cholesterol higher than say a port wine. (Forgive me, I am not a wine expert - if port wines are sweet!) I guess it is a minor miracle that so many cholesterol tests come out to 180 mg/dl - perhaps a fast is required before the test!? That would certainly help standardize a cholesterol reading.

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Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:47 am
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
New labs back after aprox 7 months on pt. Had traditional chol. test and total was 185. After 2 months on pt went to 231 w/ vap test and lp(a) of 14. New labs are as follows:

ldl 117
hdl 58
vldl 16
total chol. 191
Lp(a) 12 HIGH


Other numbers are unremarkable. C reactive proteins are very low .18. It appears that the pt temporarily raised my chol. profile, but it still did not lower my Lp(a). All other numbers are fine. I would like to hear any comments and welcome any suggestions to help lower this Lp(a).


Last edited by Cobraman on Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:28 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Cobraman wrote:
New labs back after aprox 7 months on pt. I would like to hear any comments and welcome any suggestions to help lower this Lp(a).


Are you also taking proline?

Edited after checking facts in my book..

Page 68 - softcover Practicing Medicine without a License?

Quote:
Another bit of evidence comes from a professor at a New York medical school. he had been taking vitamin C and lysine for years but his Lp(a) was still elevated. He made one change to his supplements, he added proline. After six months his Lp(a) had dropped by 30 percent, and after 14 months, his Lp(a) was zero.


Interesting about the "bump" in your cholesterol numbers, but I still question those results.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:37 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
What Owen said and
Up your B3 Niacin. I'll repeat this! Take right B4 you jump in bed for the night you'll sleep thru the flush. I've been taking 1500 mg like this for 4 years don't have any Idea if I get a flush or not now. LP(a) = 0 zero zip nada!!! Always comes back NR (None recordable)

It takes time to get it down but 12 isn't that bad Pauling gave us 14 is when trouble starts.

Or you could take Warfarin (Rat poison) it knocks LP(a) right out along with a few other things you need to live.

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Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Got new VAP labs back-not good
Vitamin c 10000mg, 1000mg(1 packet) of lyposomal vit c, 6000mg l-lysine, 2000mg l-proline. What exactly are you questioning? You stated yourself in this thread that anecdotally cholesterol can jump at the start of pt.
ofonorow wrote:
Cobraman wrote:
New labs back after aprox 7 months on pt. I would like to hear any comments and welcome any suggestions to help lower this Lp(a).


Are you also taking proline?

Edited after checking facts in my book..

Page 68 - softcover Practicing Medicine without a License?

Quote:
Another bit of evidence comes from a professor at a New York medical school. he had been taking vitamin C and lysine for years but his Lp(a) was still elevated. He made one change to his supplements, he added proline. After six months his Lp(a) had dropped by 30 percent, and after 14 months, his Lp(a) was zero.


Interesting about the "bump" in your cholesterol numbers, but I still question those results.


Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:21 am
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