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 Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me 
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Post Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
My questions concern bowel tolerance, but also the necessity of taking this dose daily. I am a healthy 110# woman and I finally, after 1 month got to BT at 61 gms. It was a very uncomfortable month once I hit 40 gms. No matter what form of VC I took - capsules or powder, I felt bloated and full. I tried with food, without food, in OJ, capsules + powder + chewable.....all of it made me feel bad. I tapered myself down to 20 gms a day and that works. My question, I simple terms, is how can something that is suppose to be so good, make me feel so bad. From a fluid standpoint, I was ingesting water all the time to get 61 gms in. This is a lot for a small person that is and has been well all her life. Does BT really correlate with an illness. I sure feel a lot better NOW than when I was consuming so much. Thanks!


Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:19 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
In my opinion, bowel tolerance of vitamin C is not necessarily a measure of illness. Rather it is a measure of oxidative stress which you may or may not be aware of the cause. Infectious diseases produce oxidative stress and are the basic model of bowel tolerance estimates that were set forth by Dr Cathcart whose articles are available on this website. But for other people, the bowel tolerance level may be increased due to undetected cancer, mercury toxicity, or possibly by just an excessively acid diet. A bowel tolerance of 20 grams per day is higher than most normal, but is not extreme.

And yes, it can be uncomfortable to be taking excessive vitamin C. I have shared about my son's illness and his dependency on high dose vitamin C. However, sometimes we have to back off on the oral form and stick to lypospheric vitamin C which is less disturbing to the bowels. And sometimes he gets sick and tired of taking so much and we quite completely for a day or so. If a person is constantly on the edge of a state of flushing out the bowels with diarrhea, that is not good either. You may be losing electrolytes and putting your blood levels in a constant state of imbalance. In such case, you need to back off and take a break from pushing the vitamin C so high.

Ron


Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Thanks Ron......I do exercise 5 times a week, but not at what one call training / athletic levels. Time will tell if there is something ominous brewing, but I feel quite good overall. I would gladly take that much if I knew I had cancer, but in the meantime, I am settling on 20 for no good reason other than I tolerate it just fine.


Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:32 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Quote:
I am a healthy 110# woman and I finally, after 1 month got to BT at 61 gms. It was a very uncomfortable month once I hit 40 gms. No matter what form of VC I took - capsules or powder, I felt bloated and full.


This is an exceptionally high bowel tolerance for an otherwise "healthy" woman of 110# !!

If you look at Cathcart's table (http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm), other than a cold, you
find:


Quote:
cancer .......................... 15 - 100
ankylosing spondylitis .... 15 - 100
Reiter's syndrome ........ 15 - 60
acute anterior uveitis ...... 30 - 100
rheumatoid arthritis........ 15 - 100
bacterial infections ......... 30 - 200+
infectious hepatitis......... 30 - 100
candidiasis .................. 5 - 200+


You have no other symptoms?

How is the health of your mouth? Dental work? Root canals?

Do you happen to know your total cholesterol?

If it were me, I would add Lypo-C over and above the 20 g of ordinary C, using 1 Lypo-C as 5 grams of ordinary. So to reach your tolerance of 61 g, you need 40 more gram, or 8 packets of Lypo-C daily. (Fortunately, Lypo does not or should not add any bowel/gastric distress.)


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Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I have been hypothyroid and treated with levothyroxine for 5 yrs, root canal last December, total cholesterol 180 ish and HDL 68.......I have seen Cathcart's table, believe me! When I kept increasing and increasing the grams, I was a bit alarmed. However, just consuming that amount of water to down all the capsules ( Twin Lab 1000 mg capsules) and powder ( PureCaps 1 scoop=3,200 mg) and the feeling of fullness and bloating made me wonder if this is really good for me. I was also taking a high potency multiple that was 6 capsules ( also from PureCaps). Once I lowered the dose to a very arbitrary 20 gm, I felt much better and was not having a hard time making the quota for the day. Is it possible that there are healthy people out in the universe that have high tolerance and do not need as much as their tolerance? Afterall, some of the values are known on people once they are sick, but did these same people know their bowel tolerance before they became sick? I did have a complete physical last fall with bloodwork and mammogram - colonscopy 5 yrs ago at 50. I am pretty in tune with my body and if I thought anything was different or did not feel right, I would check it out. I wish there was a study I could actually be in!
I think the idea that I had to get about 60 gms into myself each and every day, feel bloated and full and not have anything wrong was hard to swollow -- so to speak. There was so much fullness that I felt too full to eat my meals, which really bummed me out, since I love cooking. IF I knew I only had to take this for a limited time, because of a cold, etc, then yes I would have continued. But it seemed there was no known finale to 60 gm. No doubt I would still be taking it if it did not make me feel so bad. I suspect between the water and the fillers in the capsules, it was too much.
Thanks for the advice on the Lypo-C. I did look into it, but the cost seems quite high for me at the doses I was taking. Are there sources or companies to obtain this at volume discounts? .


Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:17 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
cindylouwho wrote:
My question, (in) simple terms, is how can something that is suppose to be so good, make me feel so bad.
We don't know. There is little or no research on multiple gram dosing in relatively healthy people and I can't find any info from Cathcart that helps people like you and me in this situation of having such a high bowel tolerance with few or no outward symptoms of illness. At this point it's mostly speculation.

Do you presently have any amalgam fillings? If so, how many? Any amalgam fillings in the past that have been removed? If so, how many?

Do you live near power lines or cell phone towers? Near highways or busy streets? Have any black mould in your home or workplace?

These factors and more are potential sources of oxidative stress; one's body load of chronic oxidative stress might correlate with one's bowel tolerance of vitamin C.


On a slightly different tangent, Vitamin C intake correlates with a lower mortality index. The other antioxidants (AO's) correlate much more weakly, if at all. Roy Walford and others have written about about a few of them. Pauling's 1986 book mentioned vitamin C and one or two more.


Also, CoQ10 is just an expensive way of getting more of that AO - a podcast by Dr. William Wong relates that vitamin E and one more supplement work just as well, at a fraction of the cost of either ubiquinone or ubiquinol. Dr. Wong is never wrong. ;)


Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
do you also have a high BT? Are you taking that amount every day even without illness? Good to hear about the low mortality with vit C intake:). I have just a few filling from when I was a child - in my mouth 40 yrs or so. No mold in house - other household members and pets, including parrot all healthy. No to answer your question about power lines, cell phone towers and busy streets- quite the contrary- very peaceful. Thanks for all responses and would love to know there are heathy people out there with high BT too!


Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Quote:
I have just a few filling from when I was a child - in my mouth 40 yrs or so.


Just a few fillings in your mouth for 40 years can add up to a large intake. Your hypothyroid condition may also be related as the mercury may draw down the selenium and iodine from the thyroid. My son's thyroid levels gradually trended lower over several years and remains in a borderline state. Andy Cutler's book "Amalgam Illness" explains the thyroid issue as related to amalgams illness.

If you are otherwise healthy, that is great, but the thyroid trend with the amalgam history and the high bt trend are possible concerns. You will have to sort it out for yourself, but amalgam removal and mercury detox are something you may want to study up on.

There are other threads concerning amalgam fillings that you may want to read. There are certainly many points of view on the subject.

Ron


Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:27 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
thanks so much and I will look into this about the fillings.......have a dentist appointment in April and will ask what is involved to remove the fillings.


Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Quote:
have a dentist appointment in April and will ask what is involved to remove the fillings.

You probably want some one experienced in this - and with the right equipment, etc.

Dr. Diane Meyer, DDS DENTISTRYFORTHEHEALTHCONSCIOUS.COM (Westmont IL) is experienced and even does IV/C drips during the amalgam removal!

p.s. old amalgams are one guess. But you BT is about double the previous "healthy" person with a high bowel tolerance. He reported that he was around 35,000 mg daily and completely healthy otherwise. (I am not sure what Van's BT is??)

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Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:52 am
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I also saw another "healthy" person with a BT of 60 in one of the post.......I will try and look again and see who this was and see if all is still well. Does anyone out there remember this post?


Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:18 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I can not find that post, but I am pretty sure it was Owen that said that is the highest BT on a healthy person he had seen. On another note....I was thinking about the fact that as a child of 10 yrs (45 yrs ago) I had at least 5 low dose radiation treatments for a very resistant case of Strep that the docs were concerned would turn into rheumatic fever if it continues. I know that my hypothyroidism could be due to this, but could this possibly be a factor in my BT of 61 gms? And of course, I do wonder if there is a yet to be discovered issue in the bone marrow or somewhere else in my body. Can I actually take 61 gms indefinitely without any issues creeping up secondary to large doses of V-C. I would hate to see any doctor at this point, since I have physicals and bloodwork every year that show everything normal. I do not want to go looking for something at this point. If taking the massive amounts of V-C could help, I will try and work myself up very gradually over several months back to 61 and see how it goes. I just do not want the V-C to cause problems.I would appreciate any feedback.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
Are you still taking the thyroid stuff?
Far better to get your thyroid dependent systems working right with iodine, selenium, B vitamins, and Mg.

I have no good idea as to why you can take so much C, but dehydration might do it. Is your urine nearly colourless?
How much water were you taking with all those pills?
What's your climate/home heat like? Desert conditions can be lethal, and your average centrally heated house and heated beds are worse still. Air conditioned cars and buildings same deal in summer.
I've found that "night sweats" are a direct result of thyroid malaise secondary to low iodine, and cause much water loss. My sister was "soaking three pillows a night" before I started her on some iodine. I used to wake up at night cooking, and would get up to cool off, and find when I went back to bed that the sheets were like ice because they were wet. Iodine fixed that, but I already had the other items covered.

I posted a piece re BT here:
posting.php?mode=reply&f=13&t=5940

I can't imagine why anybody taking large quantities of C would take pills or capsules - too much garbage comes with. You will note my mixture for ascorbic acid in juice, with added benefit of some Mg & K if you go that route. And it goes down very easy over the day.

I think you are well off to stay near 20gm if you have no reason to need more. It should be more than enough if you are not sick, and you should notice the difference if disease strikes, then you have an advantage in being tolerant of high doses.

FRM


Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I am still taking levothyroxine,,,,also take high potencies of vit B, Mg, and selinium. I am not totally adverse to having my thyroid ( and pituitary) dependent on this medication. For me, this cheap little drug was just a god-send and changed my life. Hypothyroidism is a very insidious condition and I had to wait 4 yrs for the TSH to be above normal. The T4 never was low, but I insisted on a trial dose of the meds from the doctor and I really could feel the difference. I am not willing to change or get off that.
I am either an outlier in the bell curve of V-C intake or there is something wrong that is yet to be discovered. My kidneys are working fine and IF I was dehydrated BTW, my urine would be a very dark, concentrated yellow and not colorless unless I was in kidney failure. At this point, unless I know it is safe to go above 20 gms for a maintaince dose. 20 capsules, spaced throughout the day is not at all difficult to ingest - just getting into the 50's and 60 gms is like a part-time job:). I am sticking with the 20 gms unless I get a cold ( which is rare ). Like I have posted before, I would love to know if there are folks out there ingesting large amounts of V-C for maintence - well above the norm that truely are healthy. It would be interesting to know.


Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:06 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Correlation of Bowel Tolerance to Health Questionable for me
I think the above iodine idea is a good one. Dr. David Brownstein has written a book entitled IODINE which is worth reading (drbrownstein.com). I am no drug expert, but I did look up levothyroxine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levothyroxine and it is a synthetic form of thyroid hormone. (There are natural forms). And as I remember, thyroid hormone is an amino acid with 3 or 4 iodine atoms attached. These days taking iodine is a good idea.

I think you can have your cake and eat it to. Take the 20 g of ordinary vitamin C daily, but add liposomal vitamin C on top. This forum contains instructions and links to instructions on how to make very inexpensive "homemade" liposomal vitamin C. Another 10 grams of liposomal should cover any bases if there is some kind of "free radical" issue the regular medical tests are missing. The only way this might affect medical tests is false positive for high glucose, but you can "fast" prior to the glucose blood test.

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Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:50 am
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