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 Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure? 
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Post Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
In following Dr Linus Paulings therapy (using Tower Labs Heart Tech), my biggest problem has been nausea and stomach pain from low doses of b.p. drugs. [I would love to stop bp meds entirely but my pressure is still too high]

I am hoping I can benefit from the knowledge&experience of someone on the forum to either find a b.p. drug (or maybe a combination of two) that won’t affect me this way. OR….if someone knows any natural or new ways to lower blood pressure that would be even better.

I have always been very sensitive to drugs (big reaction to small dose) and have a touchy stomach to boot. [Drugs don't like me...natural is the way for me]

I was taking 2.5mg Bystolic at night and 5mg Norvasc morning…but it made me very nauseous. So, I changed from Norvasc to 5mg Lisinopril and kept bystolic the same. The first day or two I felt better and thought I had a solution. But, then it started making me sick again.

Thanks for any help, dboyd98


Sun May 22, 2011 9:22 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Perhaps johnwen will comment on those drugs. I have searched and we have apparently lost our extensive discussions of this issue several years ago. So to recap.

1. Medicine measures blood pressure because a small narrowing of the arteries can have an exponential effect on your BP readings. So elevated BP is an indicator that you may have heart disease.

2. It is natural and normal to have elevated blood pressure during periods of stress (e.g. visiting a doctors office.) This temporary hypertension supports the "fight or flight" reaction, and the high BP helps push adrenaline and nutrients through cell membranes. (I noticed during my hospitalization last year, of my scores of "normal" BP readings, not one of these readings matched any other. They were all different.)

3. Nutrients that are known to lower or have been shown to lower blood pressure are magnesium (probably because it relaxes the muscles that wrap around the arteries allowing them to dilate), ditto lysine and arginine. According to an article by Bill Sardi, vitamin B6 in a dosage of around 200 mg has been shown to be more effective reducing blood pressure than most BP prescription medications. (Bill used to have an excellent article posted on the "natural" ways to lower hypertension.)

There are a few clinical studies which have shown CoQ10 reduces blood pressure.

4. We have received many anecdotal reports over the years from people with intractable hypertension who obtained relief after adopting the Pauling therapy. There could be many reasons for this.

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Mon May 23, 2011 8:15 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
So, I changed from Norvasc to 5mg Lisinopril and kept bystolic the same


Bystolic is a beta blocker and they are noted for messing up the stomach. Kind of odd they would put you on this unless they see some other problems brewing.

Norvasc (amlodipine besylate) is not a good start up drug either and best to stay away from until more testing has been done.

Lisinopril is made from snake venmon and has been known to cause some reactions to the stomach in sensitive individuals.

Starting out on BP meds is normally a low dose ACE inhibitor and working up. The most perscribed is Enalapril Maleate. Depending on weight, age and how high the BP and if the lisinopril did a good job controlling the BP I would say 2.5 AM and 2.5 PM Enalapril the divided dose would be less impact on the stomach as well as providing a steady state of application and then working higher for time & BP controll.

#3 On Owens list I'm in agreement with.

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Mon May 23, 2011 11:51 am
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
Bystolic is a beta blocker and they are noted for messing up the stomach. Kind of odd they would put you on this unless they see some other problems brewing.

Norvasc (amlodipine besylate) is not a good start up drug either and best to stay away from until more testing has been done.

Lisinopril is made from snake venmon and has been known to cause some reactions to the stomach in sensitive individuals.

Starting out on BP meds is normally a low dose ACE inhibitor and working up. The most perscribed is Enalapril Maleate. Depending on weight, age and how high the BP and if the lisinopril did a good job controlling the BP I would say 2.5 AM and 2.5 PM Enalapril the divided dose would be less impact on the stomach as well as providing a steady state of application and then working higher for time & BP controll.

#3 On Owens list I'm in agreement with.


Bystolic...they kept saying "it helps your heart" but never were able to explain how it helps it. I do have a-fib and consequent arrthymia but that is all I know in the category of "problems brewing". [And, I was diagnosed with coronary artery blockage and calcification and have been following Pauling therapy about 6 weeks now] Bystolic is apparently new and I see that it is very expensive...might that be the reason they put me on it?

Norvasc...in addition to nausea, it had a psychological component that I don't see/feel with lisinopril....everything looked "dark". I was not able to relax when taking it.

I also noticed that when my stomach hurt, my b.p. went up. Is that what you would expect?

Thanks for the Enalapril Maleate recommendation.

Speaking of ACE inhibitors, what are your thoughts about Altace (Ramipril)? [I have some of it but never took it] If you like it, would you recommend a divided dose of 2.5 and 2.5 as you did with Enalapril Maleate?

So....Many Thanks to Owen and Johnwen!


Mon May 23, 2011 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
3. Nutrients that are known to lower or have been shown to lower blood pressure are magnesium (probably because it relaxes the muscles that wrap around the arteries allowing them to dilate), ditto lysine and arginine. According to an article by Bill Sardi, vitamin B6 in a dosage of around 200 mg has been shown to be more effective reducing blood pressure than most BP prescription medications. (Bill used to have an excellent article posted on the "natural" ways to lower hypertension.)


What are safe daily doses of arginine and magnesium?

I have not been supplementing with Calcium and Potassium. Siince there is calcification in my blockage I did not think it advisable to supplement Calcium. In addition, I was leery of supplementing Potassium in terms of weakening the heart. What are your thoughts?

I have read in many places that salt/sodium absolutely has nothing to do with hypertension.

Then, I came across the research of Dr Peter Pang from Canada in which he talked about sodium-sensitive blood pressure. Here is more => learned of a hypertension therapy that proved itself to be 88% effective. The work leading up to the study also discovered one of the main causes of essential hypertension. Here’s what we learned:

Researchers have realized that a significant number of hypertension patients share a condition of low blood calcium levels and elevated parathyroid hormone (the hormone responsible for maintaining blood calcium levels). Something was definitely wrong with this picture, but the answer evaded most scientists till a Dr Peter Pang from Canada (and his researchers) discovered a second hormone produced by the parathyroid gland responsible for depressing calcium levels. They named it parathyroid hypertensive factor, or PHF.

Next, Dr Pang—Yale trained with a background in both Oriental medicine and pharmacology—developed a product called Pressure FX, a combination of a mushroom (Cordyceps Sinensis) and shark cartilage. Shark cartilage contains a good amount of calcium and in animal studies, rats were given hypertension by injections of PHF and then were injected with shark cartilage which brought their levels right back down.

I am most interested in your thoughts on all of the above.

Thank you, dboyd98


Mon May 23, 2011 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Taurine has very many health benefits. One of them is lowering blood pressure.


Mon May 23, 2011 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
Taurine has very many health benefits. One of them is lowering blood pressure.


Hello and Thank you.

How much of a daily dose does it take to get lowering of blood pressure?

Also...do you know what a safe daily dose is?


Mon May 23, 2011 4:15 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Steve
Taurine definitly would help however he's having stomach problems and the sulfur component may cause further upsets.

Dboy

Beta Blockers slow the heart rate and weaken the constrictions of the heart which in turn lower the blood pressure. Basically a heart relaxer. Works good on tachy hearts (Fast Heart Rate)

Ramipril would be a second line med it has some cardiac reactions.

Norvasc NAME BRAND and amlodipine Bensylate from COBALT will help you with A-Fib however if you are taking generics they will not have the components of the name brands and do nothing to relax the heart and will not help you with a-fib. But since you have a calcification a calcium channel blocker would not be to good of a choice.

With a-fib you need to maintain the Mag. and Pot. at a ratio of about 5-1 to 6-1 and again B1 for the nerves at above 50 mg. A good B- Complex would be Ideal.

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Mon May 23, 2011 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
Beta Blockers slow the heart rate and weaken the constrictions of the heart which in turn lower the blood pressure. Basically a heart relaxer. Works good on tachy hearts (Fast Heart Rate)

Ramipril would be a second line med it has some cardiac reactions.

Norvasc NAME BRAND and amlodipine Bensylate from COBALT will help you with A-Fib however if you are taking generics they will not have the components of the name brands and do nothing to relax the heart and will not help you with a-fib. But since you have a calcification a calcium channel blocker would not be to good of a choice.

With a-fib you need to maintain the Mag. and Pot. at a ratio of about 5-1 to 6-1 and again B1 for the nerves at above 50 mg. A good B- Complex would be Ideal.



So, do you still recommend Enalapril Maleate in 2 divided doses?

Norvasc was making me very sick...and, yes...I was taking the generic.

Also, I am taking Cardio-Plus and Cataplex B to get B vitamin support

It looks like I should add potassium in the ratio you suggest.

What is your approach on Calcium?

Thank you, Johwen


Mon May 23, 2011 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Quote:
What is your approach on Calcium?


From what you have written about yourself and it seems you have a good rapor with your doctor I would suggest you have a talk with him about your thyroid or parathyroid. With a-fib I leaning more towards thyroid. He could have some simple blood tests done and give a lot of answers. They are TSH,T3,T4, PTH he should also get a serum calcium level. The thyroid has alot of influence on your heart and stomach your BP and how you feel and may be the key to the reactions your getting from the BP meds. The parathyroids control calcium and talk about close relations there attached to the thyroid and they influence each other.
Here's a link on thyroid storm on the first page there's a link to Hyperthyroidism if it seems the syptoms are more severe then you experience. However a TS can be milder an less frequent so it's kind of an If OR situation.

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/thyroid_ ... cle_em.htm

And Yes I believe the 2.5Mg. Twice a day Enalipril is the safest starting point.
Add Potassium and mantain taking your supps.
Make sure you discuss any changes you make with your Doc and get his approval. A-fib is a serious condition and make sure his experience and knowledge is leading your direction.

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Mon May 23, 2011 8:48 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
Hate to interrupt your discussion with johnwen, but this is the first I remember hearing that you have been diagnosed with calcification:
Quote:
And, I was diagnosed with coronary artery blockage and calcification


In our experience, Vitamin C and lysine will not be that effective treating or reversing calcification, while a good vitamin K (containing K2) can do that job very well.

Are you supplementing with Vitamin K (and/or have you been on antibiotics recently)?

As some background, a major role of vitamin K is reportedly (LEF.ORG) hormone-like; vitamin K helps the body mobilize calcium from soft tissues into bones. (And conversely, the vitamin K blocking drugs (e.g., blood "thinners") usually lead to rapid calcification in the soft tissues.)

The experience of late president of Tower laboratories is why I believe that high dose vitamin C/lysine will have little effect on calcification. First, a friend of his developed a CT-SCANNER and offered to evaluate Mr. Decker to see how his Heart Technology product was doing. The scan revealed very high calcification. Very high score, so Mr. Decker checked himself into the hospital for an angiogram. The angiogram revealed his coronary arteries were wide open and completely clear.

So we deduced from this that the calcium deposits were either on the "outside" or internal to the artery. (If you think of the artery as a pipe, then the calcium was developing on the outside.) The problem is that while there is blood flow, the arteries are stiff, leading to high blood pressure. (Inability to expand.)

Second, we were both at a Natural Products trade show together and the booth next to us had a computer/blood pressure device called CARDIOVISION. The idea was to measure arterial stiffness from hundreds of rapid blood pressure measurements. Both Decker and I had our ASI (Arterial Stiffness Index) measured. My number was normal (perhaps 25) and Mr. Decker's was very high (perhaps 250). His arteries were "stiff."

I had recently read a LEF article on vitamin K, (I cannot find it, there are now very many) and that is where I learned about this vitamin's property to mobilize calcium from soft tissues. I mentioned this to Mr. Decker, and he subsequently purchased vitamin K from a health food store.

One year later, we are at the same show. Again, we both had our CARDIOVISION measurements taken. This time his Arterial Stiffness (ASI) had dropped to normal and was essentially the same as my number. Meaning his arteries had become flexible within one year. Something that had not happened on many years of HT.

He claimed that the only change he had made to his supplement regimen (featuring Heart Technology) during that year was to add that Vitamin K. (He later confided that the only other thing he had done differently was taking Viagra during that year.) I believe the product he purchased was K2 - because the dosage was listed as micrograms.

I felt this was an excellent experiment showing the value of vitamin K for calcification, especially in a long term Heart Technology user (2 jars per month). What we don't know is how long (perhaps weeks or months) it takes for the calcium to revert to bones. We have had discussions on the best form of vitamin K, and there are differences/variations. Anticipating the next question, I do not have direct/anecdotal evidence, but perhaps the LEF Super-K with both vitamins K1 and K2 would be a good choice?

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Tue May 24, 2011 8:19 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
I'm in total agreement with Owen that V-K can reduce blood vessel calcifacation. However the downside is this gentleman also has A-fib. As such V-K can promote clotting factors which with A-Fib can and will cause clots to form which could have some bad effects. Promoting the clotting factors would be counter productive at this point.

Here's some interesting reports:

Quote:
The researchers had noted that many of their afib patients appeared to have gastric problems also.


http://www.afibbers.org/afib51su.pdf

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Tue May 24, 2011 9:17 am
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
dboyd98 wrote:
Quote:
Taurine has very many health benefits. One of them is lowering blood pressure.


Hello and Thank you.

How much of a daily dose does it take to get lowering of blood pressure?

Also...do you know what a safe daily dose is?


Dr. Lam writes: "The general dosage for people who have edema, high blood pressure, and seizure disorders range from 0.5-4g a day. In high doses, taurine may increase slightly the secretion of stomach acid."

http://www.drlam.com/opinion/taurine.asp

I started taking taurine several years ago to relieve tinnitus, which it does, but found that it has many other health benefits, such as lowering cholesterol, calming the nerves, preventing weight gain, etc. Taurine benefits the heart by promoting electrolyte balance, keeping potassium and magnesium inside the cells and sodium outside. It is prescribed in Japan to treat congestive heart failure. In alcoholics, it reduces the craving for alcohol. The Wikipedia article on taurine lists very many health benefits.

I take half a gram a day, but sometmes go as high as one gram. For me, a few grams a day is too much, as that has a depressive effect similar to alcohol. Taurine is neuroprotective and prevents excitotoxicity. So, to treat high blood pressure, I would suggest you start with a gram a day, half a gram in the morning and half a gram in the evening. Taurine is a very weak acid, but it has never upset my stomach. For immediate effect, I sometimes let a 500 mg capsule dissolve in my mouth with a little water, and it doesn't taste acidic.


Tue May 24, 2011 9:32 am
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Post Re: Better b.p. Meds? -OR- Better Ways To Lower Blood Pressure?
dboyd98,
This may or may not help. There are studies out that confirm that taking olive leaf extract 500 mg twice daily is as effective as captopril which I believe is an ace inhibitor. I took Diovan 320 mg for many years and it simply stopped being effective.At times I had to add clonidine also as needed. Norvasc was added and it did nothing but cause edema and made me severely depressed. Norvasc was dropped and lisinopril 20 mg was started and that is the only thing I take for blood pressure which is now controlled. It took about 6 weeks from the time I started taking the olive leaf extract to notice a big difference. I can't be sure whether it was the change to lisinopril or the addition of olive leaf extract that made the difference. Maybe both. I do take a boat load of supplements which include magnesium 500 mg twice daily, coq10, k2,unique E, Carlson's fish oil, etc. I would love to be able to get off the lisinopril because it makes me so tired and I just started the Paleo diet and hoping that will help. Good luck in finding the right meds. The sad truth is that there is a little poison in all medication but unfortunately we sometimes have to depend on them.

Sharon


Tue May 24, 2011 9:40 am
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