Another Lypo-C Beats Viral Infection(s) Anecdote (Cortisol!)

[ofonorow]

[Johnwen]

I was going to warn you on what to expect but I opted not to influence you.
Freight train is a good example.
It gets better and so will you!!!
When's your next dose???

[ofonorow]

I was going to warn you on what to expect but I opted not to influence you.
Freight train is a good example.

Okay, I give up, how did you know? (I have had smaller "ordinary" Bioniche IVs (50 g and one 100 g) and NOTHING like this occurred. Still feel like an invalid, its been well over 24 hours later.

It gets better and so will you!!!

Uncle!!! How? How do you know? Why? On the C, or the antibiotic? Or?? (I just tried to contact Dr. Brownsteins office in Michigan for an appointment. I want his treatment if this doesn't subside soon! Waiting for live cell answers!)

When's your next dose???

Great question. This implies you think I should have another?? (r u nuts). Just kidding. I see that Mike's sister waits for a week. What do you think? Plan to add insulin per Dr. Levy's suggestion to get more regular C inside cells.

[ofonorow]

The woman emailed, and she seems pretty good on 50 g! (Loud ringing in her ears, but she had that before the drip. Some coughing. And the other thing escapes me.) Of course, she is in constant pain anyway... But this would be noticeably different. She was also diagnosed with a "mycoplasma" infection over 20 years ago! So why me and not her. Dose?

[Jacquie]

Pain everywhere and intensified, by everywhere, e.g, in the joints, and places it was hurting previously. Severe headache, earache, entire right arm... This time, technically not a herxheimer I don't think because no apparent liver involvement. Just an intensification of inflammation that is everywhere. NO nausea and no abdominal pain. Rather it is as if the inflammation process that was causing pain has intensified - perhaps doubled, fingers even more swollen, etc.

From (ugh) Wikipedia:

The Herxheimer reaction occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria (typically spirochetes) die during antibiotic treatment... It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions. The intensity of the reaction reflects the intensity of inflammation present... The Herxheimer reaction has shown an increase in inflammatory cytokines during the period of exacerbation, including tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin-6 and interleukin-8.

No liver involvement is necessary for it to be a Herx.

[majkinetor]

Plan to add insulin per Dr. Levy's suggestion to get more regular C inside cells.

Why would you do that ? Just use insuligenic amino acids.
Whey is common knowledge but there are probably even better options.

BTW, Herx reaction with vitamin C exists. Both me and my wife had soar troath for months after starting megadose. My friend got fever next day after starting it. My colegue stopped it after starting to get more sick from C, although it fixed her stomach (helicobacter induced dyspepsia I believe).

I myself had awful herx reaction after taking just 1 drop of Lugols solution.

Pauling also wrote about it.

No liver involvement is necessary for it to be a Herx.

Yes, if liver is not involved, you'll get Herx for sure Its livers job to clean that sht.


Owen, have you checked markers of inflammation: ferittin, iron, SAA, hsCRP, CRP, HDL.
Also, before doing IV C have you checked for G6PD deficiency ?

You should perhaps try MSM supplementation ( lets say 2 g per day) to reduce your pain and increase infection fighting capabilities, particularly anti-fungal ones. If you have infection, its most definitely of bacterial or fungal origin since C would kill viral ones. Fungus/bacteria may even benefit from lots of C, particularly fungus.

Now, taking antibiotics was probably bad idea. It will help fungus proliferate and some bacterial strains like k-pnemo as suggested by Joswin or c. difficile. You should now start to supplement pre/probiotics, vitamin K2 MK4 or 7, vitamin B complex, Kefir. Start low carbohydrate diet (50 < carbs < 100g per day). Bacteria can't live without carbs, if its bacterial it should help. Fungus can on the other hand, and if you go to low they can also live on ketones.

If you have trouble sleeping , consider cannabis, for both pain reduction and melatonin boost.

Since things happen around your heart, I would up CoQ10, 100-300mg.

[ofonorow]

M- I would do "that" (insulin) to get even more C (rather than oxidized DHA) into cells, based on Dr. Levy's clinical experience and recommendation. This is based on the known insulin mediated transport mechanism into cells. (Some of the things you say seem to come from... who knows where?)

If mycoplasma, these exist within cells, and antibiotics cannot reach generally.

I have had a "million dollars" worth of blood work. There is a phone book of things they know this isn't.

I am going for Live Cell tomorrow - so hopefully I will know what I am dealing with.

But johnwen's fungus guess is still on top, and I note this from Dr. Sydney Bush:

I had candidiasis and no amount of liposomal that I made or sod asc orally did any good at all.
I cured it with 500ml probiotic yoghurt twice/day Ugh!!!
I concluded that the Cdiasis was due to CoEnzymeQ10 on an alkaline stomach - known factor
but don't ask me for the citation.
So I'm not hopeful that C will cure a fungus
Tom's Opinion please.

I don't see how there can be "die off" without liver involvement?

Johnwen, I had to resort to a steroid - pregnizone - today, and one pill did some good...

[majkinetor]

This is based on the known insulin mediated transport mechanism into cells. (Some of the things you say seem to come from... who knows where?)

No need to be malicious, I was just trying to help you (perhaps this is because of the sickness). I don't see why do you need to use external insulin when pancreas does much better job of dosing it. You just need to eat specific protein with specific (insulinogenic) amino acids like leucine for similar effect. No sugar, insulin will rise GLUT transporters and you will get more efficient absorption. With many single amino acids available you shouldn't have hard time with that and you can do it all the day.
You don't want to go hypoglycemia with inadequate insulin dose, and there is always a risk that compensatory mechanisms (glucagon and/or catechoalmines) fail because of whatever reason.

If mycoplasma, antibiotics will fail, but low carb diet + calorie/protein restriction will not as it will promote xenophagia, the mechanism by which cells get rid of intracelullar pathogens.

Like I said, MSM appears to be great for fungal infections, and for muscle pain. Looks like win win combination in your case.

BTW, none of the things I say come from "who knows where". I have abundant references for each claim I post here, you can ask if you need to know about it.

BTW2:

I would do "that" (insulin) to get even more C (rather than oxidized DHA) into cells,

It would appear that someone who leads vitamin c foundation knows that insulin promotes DHA uptake since DHA is the one that is transported via GLUT transporters that insulin upregulates, not AA which gets into the cell via SVCT1/2. You probably misunderstood Levy about mechanism of action of insulin + C.

[VanCanada]

Value any thoughts.

Are you taking a trace mineral supplement in your daily water or other beverages?

Godspeed.

Vitamins without minerals DO NOT work. Trace minerals help assimilate vitamins.
-quoted from http://www.traceminerals.com/products/liquid-tablet-minerals/concentrace-ionic-minerals

[ofonorow]

Dr. Levy was kind enough to call, after sending this:

Hello Owen,

Regardless of what is going on in your body right now (I have my thoughts), the best way to feel better now is to get another, lower-dose vitamin C infusion, 25 to 50 grams, but infuse it very slowly, over 3 to 5 hours. This will "mop-up" the prooxidant debris that you have obviously stirred up, without stirring up much more.

Feel better first, then we'll work out the rest.

Best regards,

Dr. Levy

The idea as I understand is that the fast/large dose created such a large field of toxic debris that my body is reacting to it and unable to get rid of it, but that the smaller dose will help expel the debris without creating more. Kind of makes sense, and I was "learning" that I felt best if I took a 500 mg C tablet every 30 minutes or so. IV/C set for Wednesday, so we'll see if I return to normalcy as Dr. Levy predicts.

[ofonorow]

No need to be malicious, I was just trying to help you (perhaps this is because of the sickness). I don't see why do you need to use external insulin when pancreas does much better job of dosing it. You just need to eat specific protein with specific (insulinogenic) amino acids like leucine for similar effect. No sugar, insulin will rise GLUT transporters and you will get more efficient absorption. With many single amino acids available you shouldn't have hard time with that and you can do it all the day.
You don't want to go hypoglycemia with inadequate insulin dose, and there is always a risk that compensatory mechanisms (glucagon and/or catechoalmines) fail because of whatever reason.

Sorry and thanks. With this explanation it makes a great deal more sense. So you are saying that pancreas will produce its own insulin in reaction to the vitamin C load? The idea is to "push" even more through the membranes.

Now I know we have had discussions of GLUT-I, GLUT-2, SVCT.. etc and before I go to far, I will reread Hickey's RIDICULOUS DIETARY ALLOWANCE to refresh my memory, but it never all made sense taken all together. If insulin is required for "vitamin C" transport through the membranes, and DHA only lasts a matter of moments in the blood stream, and vitamin C travels as mostly ascorbic acid (some argue sodium ascorbate, but not Lewin) then how could the only insulin mediated transport be for DHA? Something does not compute.

Somewhere MSM was mentioned and I added it about a week ago - haven't noticed anything one way or another.

[Johnwen]

[majkinetor]

Sorry and thanks. With this explanation it makes a great deal more sense. So you are saying that pancreas will produce its own insulin in reaction to the vitamin C load? The idea is to "push" even more through the membranes.

No, I am saying that pancreas will produce its own insulin when you use specific insuligenic proteins or amino acids, combined with C to take advantage of that. The obvious benefit to that is that you can make such combination your current default for oral vitamin C intake. I am not aware of any insuligenic effect of vitamin C alone on pancreatic beta cells. You could use whey protein + C mix for instance. See http://www.ajcn.org/content/82/1/69.short or http://www.springerlink.com/content/q4574261014p86u5/ (In conclusion, ingestion of whey protein is an effective insulin secretagogue). This combination might be particularly good as whey is potent liver cleansing agent used for thousands years for that purpose.

Using protein/amino acids will additionally boost intestinal absorption via different mechanism - reduction of gastric juice pH. C works the best in acidic environment and protein stimulates gastric juice secretion (coffee and green tea is another effective way).

If insulin is required for "vitamin C" transport through the membranes, and DHA only lasts a matter of moments in the blood stream, and vitamin C travels as mostly ascorbic acid (some argue sodium ascorbate, but not Lewin) then how could the only insulin mediated transport be for DHA? Something does not compute.

I rechecked it again and GLUT transporters transfer only DHA while SVCT variants do only AA.

Dehydroascorbic acid uptake is via the facilitated-diffusion glucose transporters, GLUT 1, 3 and 4, but under physiological conditions these transporters are unlikely to play a major role in the uptake of vitamin C due to the high concentrations of glucose that will effectively block influx. L-ascorbic acid enters cells via Na+-dependent systems, and two isoforms of these transporters (SVCT1 and SVCT2) have recently been cloned from humans and rats

Insulin is not required for actual transport, it up-regulates number of GLUT transporters [burst of exercise also does it]. It doesn't have any effect on SVCT which works like a pump and is much more efficient. But in situations of high oxidative stress, you will most definitelly have more DHA then AA as redox state is marker of oxidative stress.

Given that you have been taking liposhperic C which doesn't depend on transporters to enter the cells at all [it enters via endocitosis, at least in the beginning, after that cells start to push C back to plasma via those transporters], and that you are taking megadoses of C for many decades, I don't think you should seek solution only with C. IV-C, very slow drops are much better idea then fast pro-oxidative drops anyway [I hope you checked G6PD before that, again, or you risk hemolisis]. You also take GSH, so I don't think you could expect a lot more improvement from vitamin C alone. Its a king of all vitamins, but it has its limits too.

So, my recommendation for you, along with any therapy you are currently implementing is to:
- Take omgea-3 fish oil to reduce inflammation. You need to watch for DHA/EPA. 2g per day sounds like good dose which usually translates to 4 tsp's.
- Take CoQ10,300 mg, aim for its reduced form, to improve your mitochondria and thus, heart, which probably has harder time now given your info.
- Take vitamin D3, I would go for 20 000 IU per day for some time. I know you do lamp thing, but D3 synthesis via skin has its limits and some pathogens, particularly mycoplasma have ability to disable some components of its pathways. By providing more of it, you bring mass effect. It would be good to take some K2 with it.

Somewhere MSM was mentioned and I added it about a week ago - haven't noticed anything one way or another

I hope you are using correct dosage. From what I found around 2g per day would be good for few weeks. Keep in mind that MSM can bring herx reaction too.

Here is some more info about MSM if you didn't see it already:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag99/sep99-products.htm
http://www.msmpure.com/msm-miracle.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18992134

[ofonorow]

[ofonorow]

The following is coming from me - no one else has even suggested such a thing, and of course I don't have any real evidence of the following. Call it a hunch.

Has this topic been chronicling my reaction to a U.S. biological weapon?

Before you laugh, I had long wondered how I could contract what ever it is - unknown - that I have contracted. A convolution of events and weird coincidences AFTER I filed the series of U. S. Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests, coming to a head just about the time the first response was ready (still haven't answered the first one - Vicks Cold Medicine - just got the McGuff response.) forced me to retain the services of "the Vitamin Lawyer" - Ralph fucetola. Another topic.

I have long posted my beliefs that AIDS was a manufactured biological weapon. It sounds crazy, but a book by a French author published/written in the 1970s - long before the AIDS epidemic, was the nail in that coffin.

I am not that familiar w/Plum Island, but have had many calls from Lyme patients on the East Coast over the years (some from millionaire heads of companies) hoping to use vitamin C and "whatever" to cure their Lyme, see:

http://www.rense.com/general63/lyme.htm

http://www.rense.com/general67/plumislandlyme.htm

And then there is the mysterious 1993 flu vaccine case - that was so bad that it made radio talk shows of the day. Tainted shots. Now all information seems to be missing from the Internet? (If anyone can find/dig up information about that case, I would appreciate it as I believe only the government could squelch some kind of Biological Weapons test, or accidental release!)

The person I am helping (trying to help) regain her health was involved in the 1993 event. She was one of the few women traders on a Chicago exchange. She never went back to work after that shot. Her fiancee at that time (the didn't marry due to her illness) is "alive" but never fully recovered either.

We were making conversation about my case going to the Live Cell testing, and I pointed out how little I travel or even get out of the house! How could they have targeted me? We'll in a world of strange coincidences, her mother has just been reading about a CIA program that uses miniature robotic "mosquitoes" to assassinate people, say in public places. I know this all sounds paranoid... That doesn't make it either true or false, but if true, and Dr. Levy's detoxification method does in fact work later today (can't wait!), or rather the series of Large/Small C IVs works over time, this new, never published detox method, apparently invented by Dr. Levy, may be of enormous value to people in the alternative health movement, or their relatives, who contract serious life threatening diseases - all of a sudden. It will be of value in any case.

So I wanted to have the Live Cell Blood analysis done - to see if Lyme was involved (hard to test for in regular medicine, and perhaps this difficulty is on purpose!) - but no spirochetes were observed. No direct evidence of Lyme. Mycoplasmas yes. Inside cells and in the plasma. Evidence of yeast (fungus). (Stopping all sugar intake.) Evidence of inflammation (obviously) and a signature of heavy metal toxicity, but nothing like the woman who went with me who is exploding in heavy metals. No evidence of a viral infection.

Finally, let me leave the reader with these sites to cogitate...

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Memorial.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/15/vaccines-behind-autism-epidemic.aspx?e_cid=20111115_DNL_art_1