Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Answers to questions about vitamin C and its relation to all forms of cardiovascular disease

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NiacinVC
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Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#1  Post by NiacinVC » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:36 pm

I have been mega dosing niacin for the past year and have just recently began mega dosing vitamin c. Is it okay to take niacin at the same time I am mega dosing vitamin c? Also I goto a doctor and get vitamin c injected into my deltoid twice a week and I notice an almost euphoric feeling shortly after being injected with vitamin c( I dont experience this from oral vitamin c). If I could afford to get intramuscular injections of vitamin c daily I would but unfortunately with my finances it wouldnt be smart for me to do. Would lipo vitamin C supplements be better than the vitamin c powder from whole foods I am currently using to mega dose?
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#2  Post by majkinetor » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:55 am

Not only OK, but should be beneficial.

Sustained release niacin is hepatotoxic with doses larger then 1g. This rises possibility that there is slight toxicity of regular niacin to people with damaged liver so I think its a good idea.

Since Vitamin C is beneficial per se, I think its great idea to combine them.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#3  Post by Jacquie » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:55 am

NiacinVC wrote:Also I goto a doctor and get vitamin c injected into my deltoid twice a week and I notice an almost euphoric feeling shortly after being injected with vitamin c( I dont experience this from oral vitamin c).

Whoa... if you don't mind me asking, how'd you get the doc to give you C injections?

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#4  Post by NiacinVC » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:29 pm

I live in Los Angeles so I doubt this is common at most walk in clinics in the country but there is a walk in clinic in Hollywood that gives vitamin shots. In fact I was going to get a bite to eat back in September and had to park kinda far and as I was walking I noticed a sign on this building that said Vitamin C shots $15, b12 shots 15$, b-complex 25$, folic acid $15. I tried all of them out of curiosity and the b-complex is unpleasant in my opinion, you instantly get an overpowering taste of vitamins in your mouth after receiving the shot. I only get Vitamin C now though but I was curious a few months ago when I found this so tried the other shots as well. This being LA most people go for B12 shots from what the staff tells me but me being a subscriber now to Pauling, I go for the vitamin c shot.

If ever in LA the place is called hollywood walk in clinic and it has a very nice staff and literally takes 5-10 mins to get in to get the shot.
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#5  Post by Jacquie » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:39 am

/jealous. Yet another reason I'd like to live out there.

So does the IM vitamin C shot sting? Klenner and Levy both said it does. In my limited experience, subcutaneous sodium ascorbate stings/tingles like mad. Ice is required.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#6  Post by sjmusic2 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:31 pm

Jacquie wrote:Whoa... if you don't mind me asking, how'd you get the doc to give you C injections?


You can buy your own shots and needles at http://www.b12-shot.com/ , they're in Canada but will ship to the US.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#7  Post by NiacinVC » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:41 pm

Yes it kind of hurts. I used to get it shot in my but but I couldn't sit down for awhile after so now I just take the shot in my deltoid. The IM vitamin C shot is very cold and unlike the b12 shot which just goes quick, the nurse administering the shot injects the C much slower.
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#8  Post by ofonorow » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:30 am

Sustained release niacin is hepatotoxic with doses larger then 1g


That is a scary claim, especially on the substance that amazed Pauling with its safety at high megadoses! The reason he became interested was Hoffer's book on B3.

Hepatotoix. How many people have died, would you think? Or are even seriously harmed?

If few to none as I believe, than how can we justify the word "hepatotoxic"??
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#9  Post by pamojja » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:14 am

I think with hepatoxic he meant that liver enzymes often do rise above reference ranges if sustained release niacin is taken at high doses or twice a day. My own started to go higher at about 3 gram/day immediate release niacin. By dosing every second day (7 grams now) liver enzymes normalized again.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#10  Post by majkinetor » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:31 am

Owen, its in all of the books.

SUSTAINED release only, not immediate release.

Hoffer probably didn't use it as he doesn't mention it:
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2 ... 4-p144.pdf

Toxicity:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/271/9/672.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1626557
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4998007322

but you can really find info everywhere.

For instance, Andrew Saul:

Four serious cases have been reported, all involving a sustained release preparation. Mullin, Greenson & Mitchell (1989) [22] reported that a 44 year-old man was treated with crystalline nicotinic acid, 6 grams daily, and after 16 months was normal. He then began to take a sustained-release preparation, same dose. Within three days he developed nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, dark urine. He had severe hepatic failure and required a liver transplant. Henkin, Johnson & Segrest found three patients who developed hepatitis with sustained release nicotinic acid. When this was replaced with crystalline nicotinic acid there was no recurrent liver damage. [23]
Last edited by majkinetor on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#11  Post by Jacquie » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:03 am

sjmusic2 wrote:You can buy your own shots and needles at http://www.b12-shot.com/ , they're in Canada but will ship to the US.

Thanks! I see the B12 they use is cyanocobalamin. Happen to know a source for methycobalamin or hydroxocobalamin shots?

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#12  Post by sjmusic2 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:47 pm

Sorry Jacquie, I don't have any knowledge of methyl- or hydroxy- cobalamin sources - actually had to google it to find out the differences and benefits over cyanocobalamin !

I have bought the Vitamin C injectables from b12-shot.com though and the process was very smooth. I take cyanocobalamin orally and have found my levels rise quickly with this method - I use custom capsule (http://www.customcapsule.com) to design my own supplements.

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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#13  Post by NiacinVC » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:41 pm

sjmusic2 wrote:Sorry Jacquie, I don't have any knowledge of methyl- or hydroxy- cobalamin sources - actually had to google it to find out the differences and benefits over cyanocobalamin !

I have bought the Vitamin C injectables from b12-shot.com though and the process was very smooth. I take cyanocobalamin orally and have found my levels rise quickly with this method - I use custom capsule (http://www.customcapsule.com) to design my own supplements.


SJ- Is it difficult getting the hand of learning to inject yourself? Because I would think this would be a much cheaper route for me to order bulk online rather than going to the doctors office every week. Also you have to refrigerate the Vitamin C right?
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:55 am

pamojja wrote:I think with hepatoxic he meant that liver enzymes often do rise above reference ranges if sustained release niacin is taken at high doses or twice a day. My own started to go higher at about 3 gram/day immediate release niacin. By dosing every second day (7 grams now) liver enzymes normalized again.



Very well, then why not just say "raises liver enzymes"?

Yes, Hoffer never mentions this kind of toxicity. I am always skeptical of information like this published by regular medicine to influence doctors. Those 4 cases sounded quite serious, but the assumption is that it was the "sustained" release, rather than, say, the substance in the medicine that is used to create the sustained release action. Was some other drug taken coincidentally? And what is the theory. Why would one "large" short-term dose be less damaging than a lower dosage released over time? Something is fishy in river city...
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Re: Is it okay to megadose VC while taking high doses of niacin

Post Number:#15  Post by majkinetor » Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:00 am

Yes, its very strange, but its consistently reported with doses >1g with different manufacturers which rules out drug specifics.

Maybe continuous large flaw of B3 floods the liver.... who knows... I don't think dilemma is worth analyzing when all you need to do is take regular B3.

Owen, keep in mind that B3 is regular combination with statins so I think pharma also doesn't benefit from toxicity effects, as they can charge B3 in combination with lets say simvastatin 100x its price (the same as they do, for instance with fish oil (lovaza) or marinol (cannabis) )

I think it would probably not happen in combination with vit C.


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