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 Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc. 
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Hi Owen, I have had pulmonary hypertension now for 5 yrs. Also diagnosed with hypothyroidism, crest syndrome (maybe), some cirrohsis (probably from PH congestion) and various symptoms like fatigue, edema, possibly candida, cold extremities etc. Was wondering since this PH is rare and they say caused by cellular malfunction (endothelial cell growth) can the Linus protocol be successful?


You have nothing or little to lose by trying Pauling's recommendations, starting with his basic recommendations as contained in his 1986 book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. These orthomolecular substances are not toxic, and may provide a great deal of help, if the past ten years is any guide.

How much vitamin C have you been supplementing?

How much Co10 do you supplement?

Do you supplement mangesium?

I will comment further at our forum, but in the meantime, here is my protocol based on
Linus Pauling's recommendations and lectures:


http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/protocol/

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:48 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Owen ,

Thanks so much for your fast reply. First to answer your questions I have
had so many pharma drugs & vitamins over the years to be frank & honest I
have lost a feeling of confidence anything I do makes a difference, that
being the question of is my liver overloaded, my candida (if I have it) not
being addressed and so forth? But when I have been consistent I have taken
1000 mg Vitamin C in a chewable, Ubiquinol 100 mg, and just yesterday picked
up Magnesium Oxide 400 mg (thinking it could help with bloating etc.). The
merry go round of diuretics is always directed my way to lessen edema but
have found it seems to dehydrate me as well, thus the question of bloating
in my abdomen??

I have seen so many Dr's from allopathic, specialist, integrative, to even
muscle testing and electrical energy types that you can imagine I get a bit
worn out after 5 yrs!! Of late been seeing an integrative D.O. pushing him
to order the ION Panel Test from Metametrix to give me a baseline of where
my body is at least bio-chemically from blood and urine analysis. He has
also performed some allergy testing to environmentals and found a few things
I am being treated for.

Until my test results come back, I am trying to prepare myself to properly
supplement for what I am shown to be deficient in. One PhD from MIT by the
name of Raymond Francis (beyondhealth.com) says all disease is caused by
nutritional deficiency and/or toxicity. Of course not knowing for sure I at
least have a start on the nutritional side at this point once the test
results come back.

Since Linus Pauling is a respected source, I want to be open to your/his
protocol. I also not being a pill popping guy historically like the fact you
all have laid the ground work on combining some of these nutrients to lessen
number one would have to take. One question I have Owen from my readings of
the Beyond Health site is they offer an L-ascorbic Vit C free from Oxygen in
the processing so wondering on quality how yours may measure up? Also a lot
of discussion out there on Vitamin absorbability as well as synthetic
vitamins vs. natural. Please expand on this for me since I do have an
interest in getting the 90-95% absorbability vs. the 5-10% they speak of
using the cheaper products. I am an old sales guy so understand marketing
and just want the real skinny on this. Now wish I had majored in
bio-chemistry! :)

Upon your reply I will discuss further with my Dr tomorrow and see what I
can do to move in your direction. I know I do not want the pharma route any
longer although this position frustrates the specialist and allopathic docs.
I have studied the whole healthcare system and its origin and frankly do not
trust in any of it. One does have to careful though to give the body what it
needs it its most natural pure form. Have read several of the excerpts from
Dr Pauling's writings and listened to his audio testimonials and find his
work fascinating, honest in approach, and pragmatic too.

Thanks for your guidance on this.

Tommy



The liposomal forms are more absorbed, but for reasons (including economy), we recommend bowel tolerance oral ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate.

We have much on the "natural vitamin C " misinformation. You might start here:


http://vitamincfoundation.org/NaturalC.htm

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:12 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
Posts: 9362
Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Owen,

Thanks for the info. Beyond Health recommends of course there L-abscorbic
Vit C (oxygen free), but in the end we just want to know what is the effect
on the body either way?? As long as yours is scientifically proven to be
absorbable and since from what I read Vit C has a short life meaning got to
take it more than once per day, then I have no compelling reason to purchase
their Vit C. Any reference that would be great, but I am actually more
interested in what formula you would recommend that is easy to take and
already has all the constituents I would need in it? Just trying to keep it
simple. Pill popping has never been my strength!

Any info you have pertaining to cleaning up the liver, improving endothelial
cell issues in the circulatory system would be most helpful too. My hope is
with all my condition which who knows may originate in the gut due to
candida, poor circulation, edema, all of it can be cleared up using this
protocol??

Thanks again.

Tommy



From my reading/study, the most common root cause of liver malfunction is low glutathione (GSH) in liver cells. Long story, but only scientifically proven way to raise intracellular glutathione (GSH) is high vitamin C intake.

However, new liposomal GSH (e.g. Lypo-GSH from livonlabs.com) is exciting because it may be a viable way to raise liver glutathione.

Lypo-GSH anecdotes are amazing. Company is rationing product based on demand, and it is the only non-vitamin C nutritional product we carry. http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=27 I think you might be wise to try 1 or 2 packets daily, along with high vitamin C.

If you can afford it, either our Ascorbade product http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2 - or Tower's Ascorsine-9, http://www.paulingtherapy.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=33 provide a very potent and comprehensive anti-CVD formula.

You can compare the pricing/ingredients here http://paulingtherapy.com/products.html

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:18 am
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Vitamin C Master
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Any info you have pertaining to cleaning up the liver...

Besides the C, NAC is great for the liver (and kidneys!).


Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:10 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Hi Owen,

Noticed a few links to Ascorbade, but got to re-thinking all I've been through and wanted your advice before ordering. As you know the medical community likes to make Pulmonary Hypertension a we don't know disease (irritates me I know they can understand all disease much better than they put on-corruption at its worse in my opinion), but that said I have been on a long path now (5yrs) to not much avail. Actually been missing the mark maybe partly my fault-experimenting, but I really want to break through by using our God given horse sense. Finally I was led to company called Metametrix that does advance nutritional testing / toxicology testing and hear my report is back at the Doctors office. Was wondering if you reviewed this test and vit/mineral suggestions if you could help me determine best supplement in Dr Paulings formula's. Part of my concern is I have been throwing the wrong darts at my condition so wanting to insure this time I get it right.

I understand supplements themselves cannot heal, but them combined with proper diet, and then insuring a full functioning digestive tract may make it all come together. Sometimes you know when you go through a heavily fatigued day, swallowing one more pill whether prescription or supplement makes you almost mad. That said I have reason for optimism with your product and knowing we actually do have people out there who speak the truth, which I get the impression Dr. Pauling has high integrity and cared about people.

Appreciate your thoughts and if you are willing to review, I can send you my test results.

Tommy


You can send me the report and I'll try to take a look. Don't understand the comment that "supplements cannot heal". Perhaps that was a Fruedian slip? As drugs usually cannot heal, but that is what supplements usually do heal, or speed or help with healing.

Anyway, the basis of most human (non-genetic) disease is some kind of nutrient deficiency (or toxic load) and if you can improve nutrition, you usually wind up helping the condition. Generally for lung disease, vitamins A, C and E have been shown to improve lung function, but the most by C - and people are reporting the Lypo-C has the best effect.

I don't remember if I mentioned this, but the normal path is to follow Pauling's basic regimen in his book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (covers most of the nutritional bases) and then work on reducing the toxic load (e.g. medications.). As I mentioned Glutathione is ESPECIALLY important for the liver, as it is the main detox
moleculte, and the liver is the main detox organ. Only vitamin C has been scientifically shown to raise Glutathione levels inside cells, but the new liposomal GSH is thought to have this ability too.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:07 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:
Hi Owen,

Thanks...and for the time being rather than do nothing I ordered 2 jars of the Cardio-C and your book Practicing w/o a License. What I was referring to from my readings is is often said supplementing with vit/minerals are not enough that are bodies really want good nutritious food as a way to process the nutrients, then along with other good lifestyle choices. I do favor some high quality supplementation just because when you get my age (53) from what I read the body just either doesn't get what it needs from our food supply or the body is lacking ability to convert. Heck even Jack Lalaine was into
them at 50! So apologize for not making myself clear on that one.

I have been just down so many paths trying to get my path as accurate as I can with you. That is thought process behind sending you my nutritional assessment report so you can take an analytical point of view and help me refine my dosages and/or direct me to any other sources you are aware of.

Would enjoy getting the book you mentioned as well. Thomas recommended it (very nice guy by the way), so it is on my list. Maybe seeing how Cardio-C works then moving over to Lypo-C if better. Also the Lyposomal Glutathione sounds like one to do as well. Main thing I am moving and maybe together we can help me help myself to beat this dreaded "labeled disease" pulmonary hypertension, hypothyroidism, and all my other ailments back!! Been at this 5 LONG YEARS!

Thanks again for your follow up.

Tommy


Just high vitamin C by itself may provide significant relief. Adding Pauling's supplement recommendations cannot hurt, and may help even more.

Generally, I don't believe in the whole foods improving the utilization of basic nutrients, as these nutrients are digested (separated) and absorbed separately. They lose their "wholeness" as soon as you eat them, and the issue in the gut is absorption.

But Whole Foods generally have more nutrients (which is good) and there does some to be some real benefits to the food enzymes available in raw foods. Lots of anecdotes of very youthful people living into old age because they ate a lot of raw and wholesome food!

In your case, it sounds like you need to get well, and a good start is to avoid any food that comes in a box - processed foods. Avoid trans fats.

Raw milk is superior to pasteurized, but hard to get and there is some danger. Avoid sugars (so a glycemic diet is wise - a diet that that balances blood sugar levels)

Fruits and veges can have pesticides. Meat can have hormones and antibiotics.

In my own home, we now avoid lunch meats preserved with nitrates - even Oscar Meyer now has "nitrate free" hotdogs.

Most people cannot eat perfectly - so supplements become even more important, and as mentioned - Pauling's regimen is an excellent foundation to build your health upon.

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Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:12 am
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Owen,

What do you think about supplementing milk thistle for liver protection? Or would this be a waste of money because vc is already protecting the liver adequately?

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Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:27 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
NiacinVC wrote:
Owen,

What do you think about supplementing milk thistle for liver protection? Or would this be a waste of money because vc is already protecting the liver adequately?


Personally, I think it is an excellent idea - especially if you are putting a toxic load on the body/liver. I know about the cases where toxic mushrooms should have caused death from liver failure, but Milk Thistle (Silybum marianum) provided almost complete liver protection.

Quote:
Amanita mushroom poisoning

The efficacy of thirty different treatments was analyzed in a retrospective study of 205 cases of Amanita phalloides (death cap) mushroom poisoning.[18] Both penicillin and hyperbaric oxygen independently contributed to a higher rate of survival. When silybin [silibinin] was added to the penicillin treatment, survival was increased even more. In another 18 cases of death cap poisoning, a correlation was found between the time elapsed before initiation of silybin therapy, and the severity of the poisoning.[19] The data indicates that severe liver damage in Amanita phalloides poisoning can be prevented effectively when administration of silybin begins within 48 hours of mushroom intake. In a recent 2007 event, a family of six was treated with milk thistle and a combination of other treatments to save them from ingested poisonous mushrooms. While five of the six made a full recovery, the grandmother showed liver recovery but was overcome by kidney failure related to the poisonous mushrooms.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_thistle

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:38 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
PT for the Heart!
Solaray 25,000 IU Vitamin A to quite the Immune system.
(if your doc is willing low dose Accutane instead of Vitamin A) :roll:
Vitamin K2 to move the calcium out where it belongs.
Get a D blood test to see how low your d levels are then d3 supps to get it in range.

Don't expect miracles on this it's going to take time to get things in order.

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Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:36 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
For those who wonder about why I would make these recommendations, when he’s talking about what would seem like a different subject, maybe this will help add a little sense to it.

Autoimmune disorders such as the CREST syndrome or dermatomyositis can also cause soft tissue calcifications. The CREST syndrome consists of calcinosis cutis (usually seen under the skin of the hands or wrists), Raynaud's phenomenon, esophageal disorders, sclerodactyly, and telangiectasia.

Dermatomyositis; is an uncommon inflammatory disease marked by muscle weakness and a distinctive skin rash.

C= Calcinosis cutis; is a term used to describe a group of disorders in which calcium deposits form in the skin.

R= Raynaud's Phenomenon
A condition of unknown cause in which the arteries of the fingers become hyperreactive to the cold and go into a spasm. It is more common in women than men, and may affect up to 10% of otherwise healthy female athletes causing them great difficulties in cold environments. Warm gloves and calcium-channel blocking agents may relieve the condition.
Let’s see “calcium-channel blocking agents may relieve the condition.” Hmm you think it might have something to do with Calcium in soft tissue???

E= Esophageal Disorders; Problems with the pipe that runs from the Mouth to the Stomach. Most often caused by high acid levels (low PH) in the stomach.
Let’s see Body has high Calcium demand which means any calcium taken into the stomach that would normally aide in raising the PH to a less acidic state is being asorbed rapidly to meet body demands. HMMM where’s all that calcium going.

S= Sclerodactyly; is a localized thickening and tightness of the skin of the fingers or toes. Sclerodactyly is commonly accompanied by atrophy of the underlying soft tissues.
Let’s see Maybe a whole lot of that calcium is going to the hands and the soft tissue of the hands. Could be why it don’t hang around in the stomach???

T= Telangiectasia; A dilatation of small blood vessels (arterioles, capillaries, venules), often multiple in character. Telangiectasias create small red lesions, sometimes spidery in appearance, usually in the skin or mucous membranes, which blanch on pressure. It occurs in all species but is most common in the liver of cattle.
Let’s see Varicose veins with red mark’s. Maybe it cause’s liver problems in humans too. Maybe calcium blockages of the veins causing high veinal pressures expanding the vein such as a ballon??

Anyone else see where this gentleman’s problems could be calcium related???
How about a good ole check up of the parathyroids by a knowledgeable ENDO!!!

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Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:24 am
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
ofonorow wrote:
Raw milk is superior to pasteurized,...

Yes, by a country mile.

ofonorow wrote:
...but hard to get and there is some danger.
That last part seems to be shoot-from-the-hip fear-mongering; quite surprising, really, from someone with your background. Please provide references for this statement. Or delete it instead if you can't provide them.

Remember, a good motto for any "orthomolecular naturopath" to follow is to "First, do no harm." Dissuading people from consuming raw dairy products would cause harm to a population's health status, no different than certain M.D.'s or government health authorities recommending R.D.A. intakes of vitamins and minerals.


Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:57 am
Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Quote:

ofonorow wrote:
...but hard to get and there is some danger.
That last part seems to be shoot-from-the-hip fear-mongering; quite surprising, really, from someone with your background. Please provide references for this statement. Or delete it instead if you can't provide them.


I assumed you understood the purpose of pasteurization VanCanada. My mistake. Here is a reasonable overview of the pathogens commonly found in milk.. (There were only 856000 google hits to "milk and infections". )

http://infectiousdiseases.about.com/od/g/a/milkborne.htm
Quote:
Infectious Microbes Found in Cow’s Milk

Bacillus cereus: These bacteria produce a toxin that can cause diarrhea and another that causes vomiting. Bacillus cereus spores are heat-resistant and may survive pasteurization. There have even been very rare cases linked to dried milk and dried infant formula.
Brucella: Brucella is a bacterial microbe that is found in unpasteurized dairy products. Brucella infection, or Brucellosis, has also been called “Undulant Fever” because of the regular recurrence of fever associated with the disease.
Campylobacter jejuni: Campylobacter jejuni is the most common bacteria to cause diarrheal disease in the U.S. and is found in raw milk and poultry. It has an increased chance of causing disease when consumed in milk, because the basic pH of milk neutralizes the acidity of the stomach.
Coxiella burnetii: Coxiella infects a variety of animals, including livestock and pets. The microbe can be found in cow’s milk and is resistant to heat and drying. Infection by Coxiella results in Q fever, a high fever that may last up to 2 weeks.
E. coli O157:H7: This particular strain of E. coli has been associated with a number of food-borne outbreaks and is the cause of bloody diarrhea. Frequently associated with dairy cattle, microbial contamination of raw milk and soft cheeses can result in disease.
Listeria monocytogenes: Listeria is a common bacterial pathogen that is found in soft cheeses and unpasteurized milk. It can even survive below freezing temperatures and can therefore withstand refrigeration. It is particularly dangerous to individuals who have weakened immune systems, including pregnant women, AIDS patients, and the very young and very old.
Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis: This strain of mycobacteria can withstand pasteurization and has been associated with the development of Crohn’s disease, also known as inflammatory bowel syndrome. However, whether or not these bacteria can actually infect humans remains controversial.
Mycobacterium tuberculosis: The cause of “consumption,” a horrific wasting disease that first affects the lungs, Mycobacterium bovis is associated with consumption of raw milk and was one of the most common contaminants prior to the practice of pasteurization. M. bovis causes tuberculosis in cows and can be passed to humans via unpasteurized cow's milk, causing a disease that is very similar to M. tuberculosis.
Salmonella: Salmonella contamination of raw milk and milk products has been the source of several outbreaks in recent years. Symptoms include diarrhea and high fever.
Staphylococcus aureus: Staph aureus produces a toxin that causes explosive vomiting. The disease may be considered a consequence of actual food poisoning from simply consuming the toxin, rather than from an actual infection.
Yersinia enterocolitica: Associated with raw milk and ice cream, among other foods, contamination is believed to be a consequence of a breakdown in sanitization and sterilization techniques at dairy processing facilities.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:44 am
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
I assumed you believed in backing up statements made on this message board with credible references, when at all possible. I was mistaken.

I'll stand by my previous post and just point out the obvious, that raw milk is not the same animal as industrially processed milk.

Your referenced article is something of a joke. Do you even read what you are referencing? If so, then how could miss this part: "Dairy processing facilities have many routes for the entry of contaminating microbes. First, as a nutrient-rich liquid, milk provides an ideal environment for microbial growth. Second, dairy processing plants are full of areas where “foot traffic” from employees can be accompanied by microbes."

Most raw milk does not come from "processing plants". And the little that does is obviously protected from the microbes you are apparently fixated upon.

It truly saddens me that the health message on this message board is so often derailed by useless time-consumeing detours generated by your several and many scientific shortcomings. And perhaps sadder still are your many double standards. Regarding the latest in a long line, if you ask for references from others (majkinetor most recently in another thread) then at least follow those same demands, eh?

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Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:15 am
Vitamin C Expert
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
Uh oh......

Nicely said Van Canada.


The problem with raw milk is industrialization: a) widespread usage of antibiotics as growth promoters selecting from antibiotic resistant strains that can horizontally transmit new genes to gut bacteria or are pathogenic on its own b) mixing of milk from different cows c) unhygienic captive environment of animals. Industrial milk should be sterilized. There is much doubt if this procedure should be utilized if you drink raw milk from single, healthy and properly treated cow (fantasy for 99.9999% of people).

Here is one reference.
Tacket, C.O., Dominguez, L.B., Fisher, H.J. & Cohen, M.L. 1985. An outbreak of multiple-drug-resistant Salmonella enteritidis from raw milk. Journal of the American Medic l Association, 253: 2058-2060.

So, I guess you need your own cow to be sure.

Here is a good reference pro milk pasterisation of industrial food.
Milk of Nonhuman Origin and Infectious Diseases in Humans
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/43/5/610.full.pdf


Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:37 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Pulm. Hypertension, and fatigue, etc.
http://www.agriview.com/feature/farmlife/cdc-most-dairy-related-disease-outbreaks-linked-to-raw-milk/article_ea531c2e-632c-11e1-8684-0019bb2963f4.html

What, V. C., you do not believe the U.S. Government?

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Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:09 am
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