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 Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory 
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Post Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Quote:
Hello Owen,

As a recent stent recipient I have found great interest in your book, Practicing Medicine Without a License. I only wish I had read it a few months ago!

My wife brought up an interesting question.

It seems the minority of heart disease seems to be among those populations/nations/cultures that eat a simpler diet, free from processed food, free from dairy and high meat consumption. These people also cannot make their own Vitamin C so why are their rates of heart attacks and atherosclerosis so much lower than those who partake of the SAD (Standard American Diet - which has spread to the other industrialized nations)? Shouldn\'t they also suffer from a Vitamin C deficiency and thus heart disease?

Also, I had no input as to the stent that was embedded in my heart last month. I have since learned it is a medicated stent. Rats! I'm still taking 8-10 grams of C and lysine daily. Is it in vain?

After reading about the radioactive stents in your book today I left a message for my cardiologist this morning asking if I have a radioactive stent - and have yet to hear from him. Is it true that if I have that kind of stent Vitamin C and lysine will do no good at all for my cardiac issues?

BTW, I was having frequent nose bleeds for several years and was able to slow them down with a saline nasal spray. (did not have high blood pressure) After reading your book I began to realize my nose bleeds could have been indicative of a light scurvy condition.

I figured if bleeding gums could be a sign of scurvy. - maybe bleeding nose might also be a pre-scuvy indicator. I've stopped the saline spray and only doing mega C doses - and no nose bleeds. What do you think?

Thank you so much for writing your book and your time in answering my questions.

Sincerely,
Mike


Thanks for reading our book.

Sorry to hear about the stent, but Carol Smith did get medicated stents, if memory serves - after she stopped the program (for the 3rd time) and had her third relapse. We put her latest story on the front page at PaulingTherapy.com. In this case, after the stent, a higher DOSAGE was able to overcome the extreme pain she felt from the stent. If believe it was medicated, and I believe that means that you may have to increase your vitamin C dosage, but there is hope of overcoming the "medication." And in my opinion, Lypo-C can be a huge adjunct in increasing your vitamin C dosage.

I think you are right about nose bleeds being a sign/symptom of sub clinical scurvy

As far as the paleo diet, we have had many discussions in this forum over the years about this issue, and it basically comes down to this. The need for daily vitamin C is drastically reduced when a human is on a diet of fresh foods and fresh meats - no processed foods, and. esp. no trans fats. I believe the eskimos (intuit) who eat mostly
fat - blubber - are healthy with no cardiovascular disease. (Pauling discusses them in his book.) If/when vitamin C was in short supply, these ancients may very well have had heart disease (atherosclerosis) - but there was usually no way to tell. It was rare to live past forty.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:53 am
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Vitamin C Expert
Vitamin C Expert

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:36 am
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Quote:
I believe the eskimos (intuit) who eat mostly fat - blubber - are healthy with no cardiovascular disease.

Parts of animal that are rich in C like eyes, brainz, liver, adrenals, are typically eaten in such societies. Meat is, AFAIK, considered low grade food.


Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:25 am
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Vitamin C Master
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Also, eating more sugar causes more oxidative stress than eating more saturated fat, so an all raw meat diet will lower the body's C requirements some (perhaps why dogs and cats make less?).

ofonorow wrote:
It was rare to live past forty.

This is a common misconception. Average life expectancy of 35 or 40 doesn't mean most adults never see 50. Go here and read Chapter 14 (starting page 263).

Quote:
[Average life expectancy] is distorted by high infant mortality rates. When this factor is eliminated, we see that prehistoric humans who survived beyond childhood typically lived from 66 to 91 years, with higher levels of overall health and mobility than we find in most Western societies today.

It's a game of averages, you see. While it's true that many infants and small children died in prehistoric populations - as indicated by the larger numbers of infant skeletons in most burial sites - these skeletons tell us nothing about what constituted a "ripe old age." Life expectancy at birth, which is the measure generally cited, is far from an accurate measure of the typical life span. When you read, "At the beginning of the 20th century, life expectancy at birth was around 45 years. It has risen to about 75 thanks to the advent of antibiotics and public health measures that allow people to survive or avoid infectious diseases," keep in mind that this dramatic increase is much more a reflection of increased infant survival than of adults living longer.

This is all backed by anthropological research. I recommend reading the whole chapter, as the authors explain it fully and clearly.


Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Quote:
I believe the eskimos (intuit) who eat mostly fat - blubber - are healthy with no cardiovascular disease.


"Zimmerman was a pathologist, and he was lucky enough to be in Alaska when a 400 AD, so we’re talking 1600 year old, frozen Inuit mummy was recovered.
He did an autopsy on this, and he sectioned the coronary arteries. So this is 400 AD. These people had never seen white people. They had only eaten what
Steve Phinney had suggested people eat–fat and protein–and significant atherosclerosis in a 53 year old Inuit woman, on pathology. That wasn’t just the only case.
He then was privy to another group of frozen Eskimo bodies that were recovered in Barrow, Alaska, and these people date to about 1520 AD, so just slightly after the
time Columbus had discovered America. Once again, no influence of Western civilization. So presumably, they were living at Barrow, 60 degrees north, they were eating
meat and fat their entire life. They might get a little bit of berries sometime in the summer. Extensive atherosclerosis was in the older woman, who was 30. All three of
them were osteoporotic. They were severely osteoporotic on that type of diet. So you can give this to people who claim that all we need to eat is meat and fat."


It seems to me that atherosclerosis has always been common. Its only the heart attack that is new in the last 80 or 90 years.

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Even a Blind Squirrel makes his own vitamin C.


Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:00 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Reading these posts and one thing came to mind. Lysine!!! In the unified theory Dr. Pauling shows us that lysine a essential amino meaning we must consume it, not only aids in the reproduction of collagen but also acts as a magnet for LP(a). LP(a) is what starts the cascade of events that leads to plaque build up in the arteries which is natures way of plugging a hole in our pipes. We know LP(a) has an affinity for Dead Tissue and is intended to attach to it and remove it from the body. L-Lysine in all sense is dead tissue and is produced in the body thru the consumption of meat and certain fatty plants. Eating high fat diets (Eskimo) does not provide high enough amounts of dead tissue to be processed into proteins needed to produce high enough quantities of l-lysine. I believe if you think about it most processed meats today have one thing in mind. Longitivity first!
Then taste. Use to be “Better living thru Chemistry!” Now it’s “Higher PROFITS thru Chemistry!” So preserving the meats from decay also alters the bodies perception of it and prevents the processing into l-lysine. So store bought processed meats don’t have the property’s needed for good health.
So unless you slaughter your own I would stick with supplementing.

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Last edited by Johnwen on Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:34 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Small correction,
Quote:
In the unified theory Dr. Pauling shows us that lysine a Non essential amino meaning we make it automatically,

proline? Lysine is an essential amino acid. Like vitamin C we must get it in the diet, and Pauling said 1 or 2 grams daily is required to stay in nitrogen balance.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:25 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
I'm trying to find an excuse and the only thing I can come up with is it's been a long time since I really discussed L-Lysine and forgot the basic's. Today I'm going to sit down and review Vitamin C just to make sure when the time comes.I'll still have it right!! :o

From wiki:
Quote:
As an essential amino acid, lysine is not synthesized in animals, hence it must be ingested as lysine or lysine-containing proteins.


GOOD CATCH!
I fixed it!!

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To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!


Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:59 am
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Vitamin C Expert
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
I don't think escimos are valid choice of model if you want to study what happens in humans in general. Thats because its very cold out there, which means thermogenesis and brown fat tissue is far more active then in other people. This could have profound consequences on general health.


Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:27 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
We do tend to get off topic.. Back to this fellow

Quote:
Dear Owen,

Thank you for your informative and quick response.

My cardiologist has not returned my call but I did find out I was subjected to a stent made by Xience. It is a drug eluting stent. The drug is Everloimus. Wikipedia had (RAD 001) after the name Everloimus and also indicates it is a drug used to suppress certain types of cancer.

Radiation is widely used in suppressing cancer. Do you know if this is a radioactive drug that is being "eluted" by my stent?
Thanks again for your time.

Sincerely,
Mike

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 am
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Ascorbate Wizard
Ascorbate Wizard

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:16 pm
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Location: Lisle, IL
Post Re: Recent Stent, Question on Paleo Diet and Pauling/Rath theory
Quote:
Hello Owen,
I know it has been a while but I contacted Abbott Labs about the stent I "own" and they assured me it was not a radioactive product. That was a relief.

BTW, I remember a comment about the Inuit - or Eskimos- health regarding vitamin C. I found that most of that culture did not live to ripe old ages. Note the following:

Excluding infant mortality, about 25% of their [Inuit] population lived past 60. Based on these data, the approximate life expectancy (excluding infant mortality) of this Inuit population was 43.5 years.

Perhaps more Vitamin C would give them a lift...

I do have a question.

I noted in your book we are not to take Vitamin C with glucose, - fruit juices for example. Yet most fruits and some veges rich in vitamin C are loaded with sugars, including glucose. Does the glucose in fruits/veges reduce the efficiency of the vitamin C they contain?

Eventually almost all starches are reduced to glucose. How does a person avoid glucose and still take vitamin C? Should vitamin C be taken a few hours after a meal?

Thanks again for your time and help.
Mike


People have reported good luck (less gas, etc.) taking vitamin C (and lysine) 20 minutes prior to meals.

The problem with taking with sugars may be more related to digestion, as biochemist Sherry Lewin wrote that vitamin C has the tendency to break down in the gut when eaten with carbohydrates, but is protected, and more bioavailable, when taken with proteins/amino acids. Apparently these aminos "chelate" the C, join with the molecule, helping it reach the blood stream intact.

A theory is that some of the ascorbic acid quickly passes through the stomach lining when taken before a meal. (See: Hickey/Roberts THE RIDICULOUS ALLOWANCE lulu.com/ascorbate)

Also, there is some competition with glucose in the blood, so less C would in theory be needed the less carbs taken at the same time.

But your points are good ones, and our ancestors lost their ability to make C (GULU defect) eating fruit in trees, so the effect of the glucose from fruit cannot be all that bad. As Pauling points out in his book, the amount of sugars we now ingest may be an order of magnitude higher than our ancestors.

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Thu May 03, 2012 2:05 am
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