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 Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine 
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Post Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
I started out making Lipo C. Then got to thinking of making Lipo Lysine. Now I make a batch of each and combine it into one container and drink that throughout the day. Is there any reason Lysine should not be lipo'd or combined with Lipo C?

Thanks.


Mon May 21, 2012 6:42 pm
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Ascorbate Wizard
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Great! Please keep us informed. We are very interested in what happens. I believe what you are doing is safe. (Some companies encapsulate curcumin!) However, I can think of some caveats.

In theory, vitamin C is required by every cell, and while I believe the same may be true about lysine, I don't know. Probably. The liposomal "effect" seems to be a low-energy way to enter cells without receptors/transporters. So the risk, if it existed, and if liposomes remain in the blood, is for lysine to enter cells it isn't supposed to.

The other "issue" is that lysine works its anti-plaque magic in the blood, not inside cells. So if things work like we were originally told/thought - that the liposomes dissolve in the liver, and then the contents are expelled intact into the blood stream, then the lysine would be available in the blood to neutralize Lp(a).

Finally, liposomes encapsulating vitamin C are very important because only a fraction of ordinary vitamin C that is ingested makes it intact into the blood stream. Liposomes prevent this bio-degradation. I have no idea if any lysine (amino acid) is lost or degrades during digestion. (Normally digestion creates amino acids out of proteins). So there may be no extra value of encapsulating an amino acid.

All this is speculation.

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Tue May 22, 2012 1:18 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Personally I'm on the fence about lypo anything (Vitamin c and glutathione "sound" safe), just not
sure bypassing mother nature is a good idea.Do we really want to put < 100% pure substances directly in the cell?
If your reason for taking lysine is to bind to lp(a) like owen mentioned then I wouldn't because I don't believe the liposomes
are "popped in the liver" therefore they won't be available to bind to anything in the blood.

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So if things work like we were originally told/thought - that the liposomes dissolve in the liver, and then the contents are expelled intact into the blood stream, then the lysine would be available in the blood to neutralize Lp(a).


Owen can you please provide a reference, everything I have read/seen/heard says otherwise.

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Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
1. What is Lp(a)?

2. Plaque is exactly what I am going after. Will be interesting to see if I get better results this way. This way erases my challenge of having to remember to take an evening dose of lysine.


Tue May 22, 2012 4:22 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Interesting. So lypo lysine would do more harm than good? I personally dont think lypo is worth it except for c because it doesnt make sense for most other supplements

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Tue May 22, 2012 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
twowheelfree wrote:
1. What is Lp(a)?

2. Plaque is exactly what I am going after. Will be interesting to see if I get better results this way. This way erases my challenge of having to remember to take an evening dose of lysine.


Lp(a) is the needle in the haystack that Linus Pauling said causes heart disease, (Matthias Rath was on a team in Germany that found Lp(a) - not ordinary LDL - in post mortem aortas, realized the vitamin C connection, and brought this to Pauling's attention. See: http://internetwks.com/pauling/refs.html - Reference #2 )

Lp(a) is a sticky form of LDL cholesterol with so-called lysine-binding sites on the molecule.

Ordinary LDL is harmless and necessary.

Only animals that do not make their own vitamin C have evolved w/ Lp(a) (apo(a)) in their blood.

Lysine in the blood fills these binding sites, rendering Lp(a) less sticky, and thus unlikely to form plaque. (Otherwise the binding sites on Lp(a) would attach to lysine residues in the walls of damaged arteries.)

You can find out more by watching Linus Pauling's video lecture on heart disease, or reading our book, http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/ or scanning the articles/science at paulingtherapy.com

Back to your liposomal experiment - it would be interesting to have twins, one taking lysine the normal way, and the other taking liposomal lysine, and seeing what happens to atherosclerotic plaques near the heart. This would do much to answer the question about how liposomes work. Whether the mostly intact in the blood - meaning they should have little effect on the plaques, or they enter the liver, break down, and the contents are delivered to the blood stream. (This is how the original livon documentation described what happens, because it seemed to simulate how vitamin C would be released from the liver w/out the GULO defect.)

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Wed May 23, 2012 1:34 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
What would be the benefit of intracellular lysine when the lp(a) is in the blood stream(extracellular)?

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Wed May 23, 2012 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Saw wrote:
What would be the benefit of intracellular lysine when the lp(a) is in the blood stream(extracellular)?


None, in theory, as far as the Pauling theory/therapy is concerned for reducing/reversing existing atherosclerotic plaques.

I take that back, to the extent the intra-cellular lysine promoted the body's endogenous collagen production, intracellular lysine/vitamin C could lead to stronger (thus healthier) arterial tissue.

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Thu May 24, 2012 4:20 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
I don't understand what the purpose of lypo-Lysine would be. The most Lysine Pauline ever recommended -- even for people with serious heart disease, was 6 grams/day. So I fail to understand the point of high-dose Lysine.

plus lysine -- being an amino acid is absorbed much better then water soluble vitamins in the first place so I doubt Lypo-some encapsulation would really increase absorption like it does with water soluble nutrients.

On top of that, should Lysine really be inside the cells? Lysine is the one essential amino acid that collegian is made of (the other two being acids that aren't "essential") but is collegian inside cells, or is it more of an intercellular structure? Would the Lypo-Lysine just get it inside the cells, on for the cells to need to expel it in order for it to do its work?

Tracy


Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:12 am
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Begs a question, (that perhaps our new found "vitamin C in the blood" tool may help us shed some light on.)

Where is some, most or all of nano encapsulated vitamin C released?

When I first started reading, the "experts" believed that it was the liver. (And didn't we find liposmal lysine was used to target liver cells?) Under this theory, the liposomes get to the liver, break down, and the ascorbate is released into the blood as if the liver had produced it.

The new theory seems to be that some, all or most actually are able to attach to cell membranes before they reach the liver - thus depositing the C inside the cell without benefit of a insulin mediated receptor.

If the new theory is correct, then our measurements should only show the 20% (emulsified vitamin C that is not encapsulated) levels over time. (How much time to reach the blood stream is currently unknown.) The rest would have never been read, and instead attached to a random cell before the liver.

If the liposomes do break down in the liver, then, over some unknown time period, the C will be released into the blood, raising vitamin C levels - so that the total volume measured should be close to the one gram (per packet) taken.

We'll have to take the measurements to see if either theory exists to the exclusion of the other.

But I would appreciating any criticism of the proposition that liposomes that reach cellular membranes won't be measured by our meter.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Combining Lipo C and Lipo Lysine
Unknown. Probably both happen, so it would probably be very difficult to determine what percentage is what, and it probably varies based on the individual to some extent as well.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:47 pm
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