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 Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels 
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Dottore


Sun May 14, 2006 9:10 pm
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I fully understand the theory of "rebound scurvy" (I think). I have been trying to take a steady amount of Vitamin C throughout the day, which means a few thousand milligrams every 2 hours. I have found through trial and error that that form of dosing works best for me. However, I recently was so busy at work that I would neglect to take a dose or two, then trying to play "catch up" at night before I went to bed. I discovered one weekend that I was feeling sluggish and my knee was aggravating me more than usual (recovering from a bad experience of 18 days on Crestor). I felt achy, sore, and generally out-of-sorts. I spent that weekend trying to take more Vitamin C to reach bowel intolerance. I discovered that I needed more Vitamin C than I had originally started out on (28 grams). I was down to a level of 19 grams. Now I am up to 35 grams this weekend; must be something to do with seasonal allergies right now. I can take the Allegra 180 mg once per day without break-through sneezing and dripping, whereas before I was taking Allegra 60 mg twice per day (the Allegra 180 mg had been ineffective last year). But with reducing the Allegra, I have discovered that I have to increase the Vitamin C. Anyway, my knee is feeling better to the point that I can do 20 minutes on my Gazelle with no ill effects.

My husband, the pharmacist, who had been a doubting Thomas about this entire Vitamin C thing, began taking AscorbAde a couple of weeks ago. He had forgotten to take his doses for a weekend, and began to feel achy as well. Now he takes the AscorbAde regularly and is feeling much better. Even though he does not take Vitamin C to bowel intolerance level, he claims the AscorbAde is beneficial.


Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:16 pm
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Post Levy's Book
Having your doubting Thomas pharmacist husband read the new Levy book, and report back what he thinks. http://www.livonbooks.com. Thank you. (I think the more technical and medically trained a person is, the more they will get out of the book.)

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Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:23 am
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
Bump.


Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:51 am
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
Rebound scurvy can be life and death. Anyone consuming more than 1g/day should be well aware of it and carefully taper off.

Why do I say that? Ascorbists like myself are well aware of the remarkable studies done by Klenner ... the megasorbist pioneer, one such study being the "vitamin C babies" study. My wife by child #4 had had 5 miscarriages. We wanted a big family (we both come from big families and are unusually good parents), but the miscarriages were really discouraging. After reading about the "vitamin c babies" we decided to follow Klenner's protocol (6 years ago) and haven't had a miscarriage since. My wife is 5 months pregnant with our 6th child. The last child was huge (11 lbs) and the healthiest looking newborn I've ever seen, and my wife was unusually flexible (was able to deliver him "sunny-side up" with hardly an episiotomy, which is extremely unusual). We've recommended the protocol to others who've had difficulty with miscarriages, and in every case but one they carried it full term. It's the one that miscarried that led me to believe rebound scurvy can be life or death. Here's why:

A friend who had had 3 miscarriages in a row decided to try the protocol on our recommendation. After month 4 she thought she was in the clear (her miscarriages always took place in the first 2 months), and she told her ObGyn about the protocol. As expected, the allopath was alarmed and told her to stop the protocol immediately, stating the commonly held myth still taught today in some medical schools that the Vit C was scavenging calcium from the bones of both her and her baby. She stopped immediately and went from 5g/day to nothing per day. Of course, she miscarried exactly 4 days later.

I knew immediately it was rebound scurvy, but wanted to read up more on it and discovered something fascinating and disturbing in the process: large doses of Vitamin C is a common self-abortion technique shared on many "girlfriend to girlfreind" websites. It works, and it works by inducing rebound scurvy. In every case it involves a large dose of Vitamin C, generally taken for a couple days up to a week, and then stopped immediately, and the mother miscarries generally 4 days after stopping. It even works for some with just one large dose in 1 day, and then nothing thereafter.

That last technique (1 simple small dose) will sometimes give me a cold if I haven't taken C for some time ... if I take just 1 gram and then nothing I believe my body expects more (because of how I've conditioned myself), and goes into hyper usage ... using up all my stores and then I end up with acute rebound scurvy in as little as 30 minutes to 1 hour. It then takes a massive dose (12g) to get it cleared up again. It's how I've conditioned my body. Now any dose less than just below my bowel tolerance will give me cold symptoms if I've been off C for a while.

Vitamin C has some wicked pharmicokinetics that are widely misunderstood and misinterpreted by the medical industry in general. You need to understand the pharmicokinetics and use it to your advantage. Realize that you are conditioning how your body uses Vit C by how you use it, and don't change your usage habits without expecting your body to internal Vit C stores and getting short time acute scurvy.

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Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:59 pm
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
Thank you for this important post, and yes Pauling advised "not stopping vitamin C, even for a single day" - pregnant or not pregnant. And we had heard about vitamin C being recommended for abortions, but not the part about stopping abruptly. That does make some sense, finally, as simply taking vitamin C will not induce an abortion.

It may be helpful to contemplate how the mother's body decides that the baby/fetus is no longer viable, and why very low levels of ascorbate in the blood may bring about this signal.
For that is what "rebound scurvy" is. High ascorbate activates enzyme systems that utilize the "excess" ascorbate available. When the supply is cut off suddenly, these enzymes are still grabbing whatever vitamin C is available, creating very low blood levels - leading to all the symptoms of "rebound scurvy" until they taper off, or the vitamin C is resumed.

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Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:11 am
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
I've been looking for the study, unsuccessfully, but there was a study in a peer reviewed scientific journal in 2009 that looked at the bodies ability to absorb vitamin C which taken at very high dosages. It was done with mice, and rather than look at the Vitamin C that was excreted they euthanized the mice and looked at the tissues and found that at very high doses there was an increase of AA uptake - higher in the tissues than the blood serum in fact. This, of course, runs contrary to previous studies done by others which insist that you max out at something like 0.15mg/mL, which is why the RDA is so low because anything above that was considered a waste of money.

Anyway, I found the study to be very enlightening with regard to rebound scurvy. With rebound scurvy, your body starts scavenging C from whatever tissues are most rich (or perhaps easy to scavenge) which I suspect are mucous membranes and such from which seem the tell-tale features of a cold, and the placenta I'm sure fits that profile as well as being rich in C and easy to scavenge. When you consume more C at that point your body then has double duty: 1) utilize the C for normal cell functioning, and 2) replenish the C-stores .in your tissues from which it's been scavanged that's why it takes some time to get over a cold because item #2 is not as urgent, and because during scurvy ever-ongoing oxidation isn't being reversed thus actual damage is being done to the tissues that need repairing ... which takes lots of C and other stuff (why you should feed a cold).

I also think our model of ascorbate absorption is messed up ... we shouldn't be looking at dosage size so much as dosage frequency, as that is what it seems to influence rebound scurvy the most. We should quantify doses in hours/gram, not grams/day. If someone is doing 10 g/day in one shot, and then they taper back to 5g/day they'd probably be better tapering to 3g/12 hours. You really shouldn't do 1 shot/day anyway, and you'll find if you do 10g/morning and none at night then every morning you'll wake up stuffy. That's rebound scurvy.

I wish I could find that study. It was referenced at one time at livonlabs.com but they pulled it, I presume because they realized that people reading it would say "Hey if I can get high tissue concentrations without liposomes, why should I buy the ultra-costly lypo-spheric C?"

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The secret ascorbist-greeting:
"Score big, eh eh?", "Is yea.", "Excelente'."

(from the igpay-atinlay of: "Ascorbic?","Yes.","Excellent.")
Short-form: "Score?", "Score."


Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:35 am
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
I would like to see such study, perhaps contacting Levy ?


Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:36 pm
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Post Re: Effects of suddenly reducing Vitamin C levels
Sounds like the New Zealand study - with mice that don't produce their own vitamin C that we have discussed. The "Kiwi Gel" study?

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Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath


Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:54 am
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